Embryo Banking Support Thread / PGS wait

[ForeverAintEnough]

Hi all, I’ve just name changed but I’ve been on here loads and chatting to many of you under different user names ( irrational fear of being outed!). I wondered if there was interest in a ‘no transfer happening’ group? So those doing embryo banking or PGS or whatever.

I’ve just done one round of embryo banking and found the normal threads difficult with discussion of hoping for a Christmas pregnancies etc.

We are unfortunately taking the long way round with 3 rounds and no transfer. It looks like my first transfer might not be until June 2021.

If anyone wants to jump on feel free!

About us: Me 34, DH 36, TTC 3 years. Both male and female issues. x3 rounds of IVF all failed. Moved clinic to Lister for 3 rounds of embryo banking and PGS. One round of embryo banking just finished with x3 blasts sent off for PGS testing.

Has anyone else had a positive egg collection soon after getting covid? I’m sorry to moan but feeling quite anxious about it all. I did a lateral flow test today and it’s a faint positive that I have it. I’m waiting for PCR test to arrive.

If I have to wait 3 months, I don’t think I’ll do very well. Sorry for being negative.

So sorry @2021ivfagain that you are feeling anxious and potentially heading for covid positive. Sorry I don’t know the answer to your question but didn’t want to read without replying to say I hope it’s positive news from others on this. Thinking of you.

@SarahK20000

Thanks. I just feel as though everything is against me with IVF. I wish I’d gone straight into another cycle but I felt depressed from the last failed cycle. I wish I could’ve done all my cycles last year when we had more covid restrictions.

The irony is I predicted that something might happen following my husband’s face to face training. He has to do it every year for his job, but last year they all wore masks.

I’m sorry. I think you are very strong dealing with what you are going through too. It takes a lot of strength to go through IVF and you seem very brave.

@2021ivfagain sorry about the Covid. We've had various things over the years that have delayed us and each time it's felt like torture at first and then I've settled down and it's been ok.

I had a miscarriage in Aug 2020 and didn't get a period for ages. That delayed us. In Dec 2020 we were told that DP was basically infertile as his sperm frag was so bad. Turned out to be wrong but that delayed us months. Then we decided to do the ERA test and the clinic closed for Christmas - a 2 month delay. Now we're doing all the immune stuff - at least 3 months.

It is hard. But I always just remember that I have to get everything lined up before it can work. It's so hard to wait but I really hope we will all get there when the time is right xxx

@2021ivfagain yes I had covid early January, though I was completely asymptomatic so not sure if that makes a difference. And my first cycle was much better than the second.

Just spoke to Dr Saab, who is recommending we do Mild Stimulation for my 3rd cycle - so estrogen priming, then clomid, and then injections of meriofert & fostimon every other day, and no cetrotide. Has anyone else done this? He said if I really wanted to do the same protocol as last time I could, but CRGH's recommendation is that if you have a cycle where you don't really respond to ovarian stimulation, that the next step is Mild Stimulation. It feels like a gamble given that I DID respond well the first time, but I think I have to follow his advice. Would really love to hear if anyone else has done this.

@Sarahk20000 I'm so sorrry you are both going through this, and that it's hard to think about next steps. Wishing you luck with the final embryo - I wonder how much the embryo grading really makes a difference. Maybe just keep the idea of another round on the back burner so it doesn't put too much stress on the next transfer.

@Janefx40 So sorry you are going through this too, and really wish you luck with the next FET.

@2021ivfagain thanks for your kind message hope you are doing ok and managing to avoid covid. The spread at our work place is crazy. I have 5 of the 6 team leaders in my team off today with it!
@Janefx40 I really liked your message. Seeing the delays laid out like that just makes you realise the patience and resilience needed in ivf. You have done well to remain so sane.
@Lola245 I have never done the protocol you are on but mild instinctively feels like it may lead to better quality. Good Luck with it.

I finally got my not pregnant test result yesterday so am relieved to see the back of this miscarriage. I don’t know when my period will start. I could swear I am having PMS symptoms.
Just to share I went to my first acupuncture session. Have to say I found it more relaxing than I expected! Felt a little spaced out after it. I also signed up with a nutritionist. The food plan seems good - the usual Mediterranean stuff with big emphasis on veg. They have recommended supplements which I hope don’t mess anything. This is what they have told me to take on top of the normal Multi vitamins, vitamin d etc so please do shout if you have had a bad experience with any of these: omega 3 fatty acids, collagen powder, superfood blend, blueberry powder, Nicotinamide Riboside, Methyl Factors, Metafolin 1000mcg, Methyl Folate, vitamin e, N-Acetyl Cysteine, advanced biotic complex.

I am also still thinking should I first do another egg collection before the final embryo transfer but I think I would want to do something different and try ARGC and not do it with CRGH (do ARGC have a cut off for age or is it more FSH/AMH related - mine were 8.7 FSH and 20 AMH 2 years ago so not sure how much worse it is now). I assume starting a cycle can take a while to set up and would they repeat all the tests crgh has already done like ERA, NK cells etc? Am thinking maybe I should try the last embryo and if it fails then only do this but am worried about losing time as 42 is approaching in September. Do you have any advice on what might be best? I can attempt to try and convince my husband. I floated it with him and it’s the first time he didn’t shout so am taking that as a positive lol I worry ivf and it’s desperation clouds good decision making :(

@Sarahk20000 Why do you want to do one more cycle at ARGC and not CRGH? You'd probably have to repeat any tests that are time-sensitive (like FSH/AMH). They don't have age cut-offs but do have FSH cut-offs: they won't do stimulated IVF unless it's below 12. I considered ARGC and CRGH and much preferred CRGH - ARGC seemed quite disorganised/old-fashioned, all the forms are on paper, not electronic. But as long as your FSH is okay, then obivously some people swear by ARGC and they have amazing success rates. But in my mind, CRGH seem similar, but more flexible and organised.

@Lola245 there are people who swear by mild stimulation so definitely can work for some people. Did they test your FSH before this cycle in the end? I think you said they were going to. I know I bang on about it, but that is a major cause of poor response.

@Sarahk20000 A milestone that your test had gone "not pregnant". I'm going to test mine tomorrow. Hope you feel ok about it.

I wish I could decide for you!!! You do have another embryo so could be worth trying it before the next collection. If it doesn't work you would only be delayed a couple of months and you could use that time to get set up at ARGC if you are switching.

ARGC don't cut off for age or AMH. They would suggest you wait for a month when your FSH is low enough rather than refusing to treat you. They would probably suggest mild IVF if you insisted on going ahead that cycle. There isn't usually any waiting list to start. They would usually accept test results done within a given time frame (maybe a year) but they would want to do a hysteroscopy and they repeat immune bloods every few weeks so you'd need to do those again at some point.
What is it you are hoping they will do though that CRGH hasn't?

I don't know all of those supplements but the vitamins, methyl folate and N-acetyl cysteine are things I took.

Glad acupuncture was relaxing x

@Lola245
Hi. Thanks for your reply. I’m triple jabbed and unfortunately I’ve tested positive with lateral flow tests and have lots of symptoms.

I’ve booked my nurse consultation, but wondered if I need to book more blood tests that @Dochas12111 suggested as I can’t face another failed cycle.

I’m not sure about the mild stimulation protocol. Mine next time will be the aggressive protocol. It might be due to the cysts and fluid you had. You could ask if there is another option you could try before the mild stimulation.

How many follicles did you get last time?

Thanks @Lola245 and @Janefx40 for your considered responses. I don’t have a particular reason for switching except to try something different and to think I tried two of the best clinics and both didn’t work so maybe can feel more assured (it’s crappy logic at the moment post miscarriage lol). I debated a lot between both clinics at the outset and chose CRGH due to the PGS tested approach and more organised etc. My friend who was successful with ARGC thinks they maximise the egg quality with the daily monitoring etc. i don’t know how true that is!

@Janefx40 I will keep everything crossed you also get past your current miscarriage with a negative test. As final as it seems atleast it means we can move on! Hope your next FET comes along quickly.

@SarahK20000

Hi. I’m pleased acupuncture works well for you. I’m missing it at present!

If you feel you’d like to do another egg collection and you can, I would go for it. You’ve got a good amh and wheatgrass is good for lowering fsh if that is an issue. It should be stopped a few days before stimming.

It might be worth trying a fresh transfer. I know at CRGH if you are 40 and over they recommend 3 blastocysts transferred to give you a good chance, but 2 as a minimum. I found assisted hatching at 38 worked for me.

@2021ivfagain I am so sorry you tested positive 😞 hope it doesn’t impact your timelines too much.
Your idea of a fresh transfer is a good one, I will see what my consultant thinks maybe as it also saves the last PGS day 6 tested one to fall back on. She was never keen before as too high a percentage of chromosome abnormalities at my age and she said it would be walking into a miscarriage (which is likely true but hopefully one could be normal IF - big if! - a few made it to blastocyst).

It turns out mild stimulation at CRGH is quite similar to a regular stimulated cycle, but you take meriofert & fostimon every other day instead of every day, and also take clomid from day 2-6. I know mild focuses on 'quality', but so far we've had good fertilization rate at least, and I just need some more eggs! But I'm reassured that at least it's not natural.

@Janefx40 I never know what my real FSH is, since I'm on progynova (oestrogen priming) which brings it down practically to nil.

@Sarahk20000 that's true - it's great you have the other normal embryo on ice since it gives you more time to assess your options.

@Lola245 glad you feel better about it. When are you due to start?

@Sarahk20000 I got my negative pregnancy test today and collected my immune meds. Things are very slowly moving forwards!

X

@Lola245

Hi. Good luck with your next cycle. It sounds like your protocol has been tailored to you. I’ve not heard of a protocol like it. It’s good that you are having clomid and not cetrotide. I won’t be having cetrotide next time either.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for your next cycle.

@Janefx40

Thanks for your kind words. It’s good that you are one step closer to your next transfer. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you. It seems like the immune protocol is really thorough.

I suppose it’s been a lot of stress and setbacks for me for as well as dealing with my Dad’s serious health issues and my Mum’s problems. That’s ongoing and there’s no support. Also my consultant believed that delaying my IVF would be detrimental before I had covid due to my age.

I’m worried that covid has delayed my period. I had that with the vaccine. Did you experience this? Do you know of people who have had a bad cycle after covid?

I’ve noticed you took NAC. Is that 600mg? I take pregnacare and notice there is some in there already so was worried about taking too much. Do you believe it helped? Thanks

@Janefx40 yippee on the negative pregnancy test! It feels quite a relief when it happens strangely! Things can atleast move forward now. Your immune meds sound a longer process than mine. I have everything crossed for your next one being a success 😊 we may run into each other this time in the clinic.
@Lola245 the protocol sounds good and it’s good they are trying different things, hope your fertilisation rate and number of eggs gets even better with this! 🤞
@2021ivfagain your situation with mum and dad sounds tough. I hope you get some reprieve with a decent cycle that happens quickly. My consultant today said for FET covid leads to a 28 day delay. She joked I was best off getting it now!! I have large team dinners and the office to attend which I have no idea why we are having with covid on the rise. People are even refusing to do lateral tests. With ivf I have had so much time away from such social events that feel almost obligated to attend as my career really seems to be impacted 😞 I am not sure what the delay for egg collections would be but hope it isn’t needed and doesn’t have an impacts When do you talk to your consultant? I didn’t have any period delay with my vaccinations and haven’t had covid yet so can’t say.
I spoke to my consultant today and we are proceeding with the FET after a prep cycle when my period arrives since the miscarriage (she said it should be between 2-6 weeks). She also said I should do an endometrium scratch in this prep month. Has anyone had this? Is it painful? She has added some new stuff - neupogen - which I haven’t heard of. And ivig instead of intralipids. She also said I should consider donor eggs rather than to keep trying with my own eggs if this FET doesn’t work out. I will try and see if I can convince my husband! But am personally not averse to the idea as prefer a quicker route to pregnancy - albeit I worry for future conversations with a child - as due to cultural/religious context with my husbands family I wouldn’t be able to tell a child the truth from a young age incase they repeated it. Identity is a key part of someone so that’s my worry. I am tempted to use somewhere like Spain where donors are anonymous but it all seems like scary new ground so maybe I shouldn’t think of this yet! Oh well onto another round, nervous as usual, not feeling too positive but still hoping it proves to be better. The consultant called it the make or break round 😞

@SarahK20000

Hi. Covid is certainly making life difficult. I’m going to keep taking lateral flow tests.

I’ll keep my fingers crossed for the next FET. As for endometrial scratch, it does really hurt when they are doing it but not afterwards. You could ask if you could take paracetamol or ibuprofen beforehand.

@SarahK20000

I think it’s a bit unfair of your consultant to jump to donor eggs. Most people have to have at least 3 rounds of IVF before success. My friend who is nearly 45 is due to give birth in June. She got pregnant at 44 but in the end went to Greece where they listened to her concerns. She had high fsh and low amh. She had two day 3 fresh transfers. Her husband had a lot of male factor issues including problems from a reversal which they picked up. She had about 6 rounds before just one round in Greece which worked.

I’m wondering whether you need a different consultant. I think Dr Ali Chamy and Dr Seshadri are really good. I’ve spoken to them both at some point.

It’s entirely up to you but I think a fresh transfer can be better. Also, you responded really well to the long protocol which is difficult at 40. You are also still 41 and at this age I’ve read for every 6 eggs retrieved there is usually one normal. I know you are 42 but that is at the end of year and a lot can happen in 6 months.

Thanks @2021ivfagain I think I may do a fresh round in ARGC just to try something different before jumping to donor eggs. I managed 7 blastocysts in 2 out of 4 egg collection rounds with 3 being PGS normal - but I do worry the the chances of getting euploid will be much reduced now. I have had 2 failed ivf transfer rounds (1 miscarriage and 1 failed implantation) and let’s see how my last one goes. I think she is of the view that after 3 failed PGS normal embryos it’s time to use different eggs. Let’s see. It’s a big one to get my head round!

@SarahK20000 I did 2 rounds of IVF and got no embryos and in my 3rd round only got 2 eggs although by some miracle both made it to blast. 1 is still frozen but other was a failed transfer. I was told I should be considering donor eggs. I did another 3 rounds of IVF after that - 1 got 3 embryos but none came back PGS normal, 1 was cancelled day of trigger due to poor response and 1 got 1 blast a BB one that we didn’t test but transferred and I’m pregnant now. So I was much worse than your response and the 3 PGS normals you got so I wouldn’t consider donor yet - that said it was our next step and if you want more info I’d recommend following ‘Defining Mum’ on Instagram.

@2021ivfagain there is a thread here on having covid and going for egg collection soon after rollercoaster.ie/community/fertility-issues/havinv-covid-due-to-start-ivf-cycle-in-2-weeks/

@Dochas12111

Thanks for your message. I did speak to a nurse and she said I could have the blood tests done.

I’ve also emailed my consultant’s secretary to find out what he thinks, but he did say delaying would be detrimental, so it’s getting to the point that there is no hope for me.

My husband is doing IMSI which cancels out high dna fragmentation issues. He’s on a lot of supplements and his morphology has been 4% last few times tested.

I’ve got over it quickly fortunately but still testing positive as is my husband. The only issue is my period has been delayed and that happened with my vaccinations.

Thanks so much @Dochas12111 for the good advice. It’s so great to hear about your pregnancy at the end of such a difficult journey, wishing you an easy and healthy pregnancy 😊

@Dochas12111

Hi. I’ve been reading a lot about covid and effect on IVF treatment. It has affected my cycle this month as it’s been a 32 day cycle which was the same as when I had the vaccine. Usually I’m 26-28 days.

I’m very worried. I’m also symptom free now and got an almost negative test today. I’m also triple jabbed. I just wonder if it has a lesser impact on eggs and sperm for people who’ve been triple jabbed.

I will get the tests done you mentioned.