Embryo Banking Support Thread / PGS wait

[ForeverAintEnough]

Hi all, I’ve just name changed but I’ve been on here loads and chatting to many of you under different user names ( irrational fear of being outed!). I wondered if there was interest in a ‘no transfer happening’ group? So those doing embryo banking or PGS or whatever.

I’ve just done one round of embryo banking and found the normal threads difficult with discussion of hoping for a Christmas pregnancies etc.

We are unfortunately taking the long way round with 3 rounds and no transfer. It looks like my first transfer might not be until June 2021.

If anyone wants to jump on feel free!

About us: Me 34, DH 36, TTC 3 years. Both male and female issues. x3 rounds of IVF all failed. Moved clinic to Lister for 3 rounds of embryo banking and PGS. One round of embryo banking just finished with x3 blasts sent off for PGS testing.

@Lola245 Got a much higher volume of eggs on round 2 vs round 1, (round 1: 6 mature eggs, round 2: 15, blast rate 66.67% each time) but I think it was just 'one of those things'/cycle variability because didn't change anything lifestyle, and protocol only went up slightly on same drug. Round 1 started 225units Gonal F and then got increased to 275 like 5 days in. Round 2 just started at 275 from the beginning!
I might have been slightly less stressed the second round 2 from personal life, but I was 'very stressed' both rounds. I doubt slightly less stress and a few more days 50 more Gonal F could explain the huge difference in eggs collected, it may have helped but can't explain it all. I fully expect when I do another round that I could swing back to having a small amount of eggs collected even on the same protocol as Round 2 again/am not assuming I'll get similar results on the same protocol!

@tulipsandsnow I'm not quite sure when we will start our next FET. We just had a chemical from our first euploid and have one more left. In theory we will do the FET on my next period. Based on OPKs that could be around 25th Feb but when I've had a chemical before I didn't get a period for 50-60 days so not quite sure. Also have decided to see Mr Shehata re immunes and that may delay things further.

@Lola245 I had 6 eggs : 1 fertilised then 12 eggs: 7 fertilised then 6 eggs : 3 fertilised (I think - weird how fast I forget). The problem in the first round was that I had two massive lead follicles that jumped way ahead of the others. In the end I had 2 huge, 2 medium and 2 small. So we got 6 but actually only 1 fertilised normally. The following rounds we did a small amount of estrogen priming and less human growth hormone. I've become convinced that having equal sized (ish) follicles is essential for me at least. If they are uneven then I may get other eggs but they're not in the running for healthy fertilisation. That's just based on my personal experience and no research at all!!!

Xxx

@Janefx40 similar thing going on here, currently leading up to an FET following a euploid chemical. At time of chemical had one euploid left (but not great quality) so went straight into another EC rather than transfer. And now about to transfer from that EC. Just got LH surge this morning so transfer will be Feb 19th x

@tulipsandsnow 🤞🏼🤞🏼for this one. It's hard when the euploids don't work isn't it?! I'm having to wait because of the chemical which is frustrating. Are you also CRGH?

X

@Janefx40 yes, exactly its hard as once a euploid is implanted 'usually' its ok... :(

I'm with Lister!

Hi all, I joined the forum late and read all of the pages 1-25 so far of your useful posts and comments. As I am considering Lister for my next option, wanted to check whether some of you had success already (hopefully 🤞)
@ForeverAintEnough3
@Alwaysworried247 how was your Access Fertility with Lister?
@MrsC2019
I will catch up with the remaining pages and will be following your progress ladies.
I am sure we will all have success at some point (hoping to be as soon as possible for everyone 🤞)

@tulipsandsnow and @Janefx40 thanks for your replies! I'm inspired to hear that you both had much better second rounds, though it does sound like a crap shoot. I had 11 follicles and only 6 eggs retrieved, so many small follicles, and I'm hoping for more even growth next time.

@tulipsandsnow - so sorry about your chemical, that's really disappointing. But good that you can have another transfer soon.

Two more practical questions: for those of you on DHEA, are you taking 50mg or 75mg per day? I've been taking 75mg per CRGH's suggestion, but ARGC had said 50mg, and Rebecca Fett in It All Starts with the Egg recommends 50mg as well, so thinking of reducing it. Though I did have fairly good fertilisation/embryo development with the number of eggs I had.

Also are any of you taking melatonin? CRGH recommended 3mg per day during stimms, which I did, but again Rebecca Fett suggests that taking it throughout, not just during stimms, can be helpful. (I read her book and have tried to follow most of her supplement advice, some of the advice in terms of toxins - using paraben-free shampoo/moisturizer etc - and some of the diet advice - no sugar and trying to cut down on bread/pasta, lots of protein.)

@K8dferXdder I'm a relative newbie and have heard great things about Lister, but for what it's worth, I've been impressed with CRGH in terms of their general admin/organisation, the fact that I can contact the nurses easily as well as my consulant's assistant, their thoroughness - it just feels (so far) like they are on the ball. But it is expensive!

@Lola245
Hi. I had 13 follicles this time and my problem I think was the lead follicle, but I had no estrogen priming. I had 7 eggs retrieved this time, but had to stim an extra day. Obviously, they were no good this time. Did you do estrogen priming as that is supposed to increase your results and make for a more coordinated growth? I’ve read that 7 days of estrogen priming is optimal.

I was worried about dhea and I think some need it and others do not.

I think fsh is really important. The cycle where I did well it was about 6.7. Are you going one month to the next?

Do you mind me asking if you already have a child? I’m TTC my second and I find the process really stressful.

I was always advised against melatonin but I’m sure I read it can be good to take it two weeks before egg collection.

@SarahK20000

When you had your first cycle which was unsuccessful, how long did you wait before doing your second? Did anything fertilise? I think my eggs did not grow properly due to higher fsh, stress and needing estrogen priming. I had a lead follicle which compromised the growth of other eggs. I’m doing hgh and IMSI already.

I’m worried about my age as I’m 41 in June. Did you ever take melatonin or take vitamin e supplements? What types of foods did you eat for high protein? There is so much conflicting information! Thanks so much.

@2021ivfagain each time I had a withdrawal bleed following the egg collection and then at day 14 of that bleed started Northisterone until Day 25 and straight onto the next egg collection cycle. First cycle I had 8 eggs - 3 fertilised got to Day 3 but nothing at Day 5. The last one that was unsuccessful too I had 17 eggs, 1fertilised but didn’t make it to Day 3. Yes my first cycle did have lead follicles which is why the down reg long protocol worked better for me. But it’s all so random. I was 40 in September 2020 and my cycles started in November so was 40 plus through them. I only took pregnacare conception and the Zita west QO10. For high protein I mainly switched to a lot of nut butter energy balls for breakfast (did have some dates/oats too) , had chicken grilled or fish or eggs with salads for lunch. Capped myself at about one slice of bread type carbs if I was having it. I am from a south Asian background so not having curries with rice etc was tricky for me. But I had a lot of weight to lose and lost 15kgs but still an over 30 BMI 😞

@Sarahk20000
Thanks. I’m a curry fan too. I’ve been making low fat, low carb chicken jelfrezi. I did eat a lot of fruit and probably too much dark chocolate. So I’m now caffeine free and have stopped dark chocolate. I’m taking wheatgrass every day.

I’m not looking forward to my consultation tomorrow. I hope my consultant will not be negative as I’ve been really struggling. When he said after the November cycle, you could have a bad cycle next time, it increased my anxiety and stress.

I take vitamin d, alpha lipoic acid, vitamin c 500mg, ubiquinol (200mg x3 now), wheatgrass (twice a day), pregnacare and low carb diet. I just stopped carbs in the evening but ate small amount of carbs for breakfast and lunch with protein for lunch and dinner. I also switched to whole milk as some say it’s better! I will look into energy balls. Thanks. Did you eat almonds, limit read meat and/or use Zita West recipes? I gave up read meat completely for months and would just eat chicken, turkey, salmon and eggs for protein. It was ok for November but I’m wondering whether I messed up.

Thanks for your messages.

Yes I didn’t have much red meat at all. It was mainly chicken and fish. And I ate a lot of almonds (even almond flour cookies etc as have a sweet tooth lol). And all full fat milks and yogurts. Smoked salmon, avacado etc. i also had dark chocolate at first but still felt it was a bit sugar and carb heavy in the end so cut it down. i am a fan of ottolenghi books so adapted a lot of stuff from that. And yes I got the Zita west recipe book too plus pioppi diet/800 fast diet had good stuff in it. I added oats etc because I didn’t want to take out a food group all together but just stayed away from white pasta, bread, rice etc. I am big foodie and spent most of my trips to work typically buying cakes and food from central London cafes - thus the high BMI 😂 saved a fortune in lockdown which helped fund the IVF lol I really hope your consultation goes well and you get some reassurances on the hit and miss cycles. I am surprised your consultant is able to say if cycles won’t go well. Mine never seemed to be able to judge and it was just try as you go but maybe yours if more thorough in looking at the detail. I always was rushed in 5/10 minutes! Had to write my questions so I quickly got through them! I had never been pregnant or done IVF before so it was all so confusing and the ivf forums have been my saviour. Fingers crossed for tomorrow, I really hope it goes well. Keep us posted.

@2021ivfagain I think some of the diet things are good for during the cycle and some in advance - so you may find what you did in November will have a delayed impact in future cycles!

Good luck tomorrow with the consultant. Let us know what s/he says

Well done @Sarahk20000 for losing weight during IVF - that is quite a feat!

@Janefx40

Thanks. Do you mean I should I delay my next cycle of IVF? Did I mess things up?

@Janefx40
Hi. Thanks for your messages. I really value the help and support on here, but I honestly believe I did something which messed things up. Sorry for being negative.

@Lola245
Did you get melatonin from Pharmasure? Do you think it really helped? Thanks

Thanks @Janefx40 I lost it just before I started ivf. I found I couldn’t lose weight during IVF but managed to maintain it atleast.

@2021ivfagain do you want me to PM you an eating & supplement plan a fertility dietician did for up for me?

@Dochas1211

Thanks. I mostly followed advice from It Starts with the Egg and have a low carb Mediterranean diet but yes if you have more ideas that would be great. I eat plenty of wild salmon, chicken, turkey eggs and avocados. I’m now caffeine free. I was eating organic dark chocolate 85% but have now stopped that. I also do not drink alcohol. I eat porridge for breakfast but measure out 40g only. I was eating a banana every day with lots of fruit but now I’ve cut out bananas and just lowered fruit to two pieces a day. I eat cruciferous vegetables and avoid white bread/white potatoes. Thanks

I drink wheatgrass every day but have been having two portions a day. I split my supplements down so I don’t have them all at once.

I also eat hot foods and avoid cold due to being told this by an acupuncturist which helped with digestion.

I’m on the same diet as I was before but the dhea was the only thing I added which caused low mood, extended my cycle and kept me awake at night!

How do you PM on here? Do you take melatonin? Thanks

@2021ivfagain if you click on the person icon on too right hand side and go to your inbox you should have a message from me. Let me know if it didn’t work. I followed that plan for 3 months before doing another egg collection but if you’ve already been doing a lot of healthy eating probably no need. Just thought I’d send it to you in case it’s useful given you’re asking about lifestyle changes.

@Dochas1211

Hi. Did you say I’m only allowed poultry, meat or fish once a day? I could not see eggs or avocados? Are these something you avoid? So if I have chicken for lunch, I can’t have fish for dinner? Thanks

@2021ivfagain yes essentially if you’re having meat or fish for one meal the other meal should be veggie - it’s easier to do that for lunch than dinner I found. I went off piste during Stims and would have tuna with lunch too just to up protein further. She said no eggs given a lot of people are intolerant to them and there is plenty of protein in the plan. If you’ve done intolerance testing and know you’re not intolerant to eggs you’re probably fine to have them.

Yes avocado is fine. I just used examples of veg I ate - any veg goes, the main thing is you’re getting in ten portions of different veg per day - 5 for lunch 5 for dinner.

@2021ivfagain you asked me about FSH: I have to test mine before cycles given that in December I had high FSH (15). Last summer my FSH was 10 so this was a big jump... But the oestrogen priming brought it way down, to 1.5 before my last cycle. (This seems crazy low, but this is what the oestrogen priming does I guess). I take NET for 14 days, and then progynova for the last 5 days, so in total would be 7 days until I get my period.

I do have a child - a 2 year old conceived naturally. I had two miscarriages before him but we always got pregnant within a couple months, so it was a real shock when we then spent a year trying to conceive #2 with no pregnancies. I wish we'd moved forward with IVF sooner but we just kept thinking it would happen since it had before. But we also subsequently found out my husband has high DNA frag.

I find this diet stuff slightly bewildering! I've been consuming tons of eggs since I'm just trying to add protein however I can, and having meat or fish every day (or for multiple meals) is tough. What's wrong with red meat? I'm just avoiding sweets and too much white bread/pasta/potatoes, and eating lots of fruits, veggies, nuts and chicken/fish. I have one cup of tea a day - that's it for caffeine which I hope is fine!

Also a question on wheatgrass: are the tablets as good as the powder? I've been trying to drink the powder but it's so gross! Would much prefer to take tablets if they have the same effect.

I actually got the melatonin in the US.

@Lola245
Thanks for your messages and advice.

The only thing I feel is my appetite is small since doing low carb. I struggle to eat a lot for lunch. I usually have wholemeal bread toasted 2 slices maximum with 1/2 avocado or two boiled eggs. As I look after my son all day and juggle work at home, l like quick lunches. I have made healthy chickpea burgers before. They are full of veggie of protein! I will have to work harder.

I do batch cooking in the evening so my son can eat what we do, so if I make a low fat, low carb chicken jelfrezi from scratch with cauliflower rice, we have it two consecutive days for ease. I put onions, garlic, ginger, green peppers, passata, diced chicken and cauliflower rice, so 5 vegetables. I also do turkey bolognese with spiralised vegetables but sometimes I add in sweet potatoes, but I include at least 5 different vegetables and I need to work harder for lunch. I don’t want to give up dairy completely as I’m not intolerant. However, I don’t have much of it. I like porridge and have it every day as it’s low GI and very filling. I only have plain one, so no added sugar and I weigh out 40g each day. I have to have hot foods so cold foods are off limits.

We can’t conceive naturally. I’ve given up on that. My husband is ok with one child and I’m so grateful for my son, but I really want him to have a sibling so much. He was conceived via second retrieval of IVF IMSI and was not PGS tested, but I was 38 then.

Since taking and stopping dhea, I’ve had some problems sleeping. Therefore, I’ve dropped caffeine completely to relax more. I was only on one weak cup of tea a day before.

Rebecca Fett says to limit red meat and eat more white meat and fish. However, I cut out red meat completely which was wrong. I think once a week is ok.

Do you test fsh every time? Who suggested it? I think it’s a good idea. I don’t live in London so it’s hard to fit it in. Do you do it in preparation month when you are taking norethisterone?

Wheatgrass powder is better but I mix with a tiny bit of apple juice and mostly warm water. I’ve upped it to 20-30g twice a day. It needs to be on empty stomach and then you delay meal by 30 minutes. You can’t take it during stims as it slows down response.

My consultant was against melatonin. Did you ask their advice first? Rebecca Fett says to take it a month before egg collection or even a few weeks. Did you just take it during stims?

Are you doing back to back cycles? I’m starting the norethisterone for my next one in March or April. I’m feeling low at present as I did not do well. Which protocol are you on? Have you always done estrogen priming?

Did you just take melatonin during stims? I’m worried about it interacting with medicine and progynova and norethisterone.

@Lola245 there are no proper rules around diet. I just shared some info with 2021ivfagain as she’s looking at dietary changes. I went off the information a fertility dietician I saw for a few months gave me. She said to avoid eggs as they are an allergen for a lot of people and so add to inflammation in the body - I actually did allergen testing after I saw her and I did come back highly intolerant to eggs (top scale) and like you I had previously been having them loads for protein so my body was likely very inflamed. I now get protein for breakfast via high protein natural sheep/goat yoghurt and flaxseeds/chia seeds instead of eggs.

Incidentally my dietician wasn’t in favour of wheatgrass or fertility smoothies etc.

But overall you can just tie yourself in knots over diet. There is no clear evidence for any of it - it’s just tinkering at the margins. A friend of mine is 38. She didn’t do any dietary stuff and just took a multi vitamin. Her and her DH were having a celebratory anniversary whiskey in the week before her egg collection - she got 17 embryos and 11 PGS normal and pregnant on her first transfer! While I was 34 and killing myself with dietary stuff and ending up with 1-2 embryos or cancelled rounds.

@Lola245 and @Dochas1211

Hi both. Yes I’m trying to improve my chances but already doing a low carb diet. The dhea was the worst thing for me.

I think wheatgrass can be really good. It helped me prepare for my November cycle which gave me good results, but wheatgrass should not be taken during stims. I did tell a friend who was 40 about wheatgrass and it helped her have a better cycle. She had very high fsh, but she only took it for two months.

I do agree: a lot is due to mindset. I can’t decide if I should do a cycle in April or May due to age and afc dropping slightly. I’m 41 in June, so wanted to do two more cycles before June. What do you think? Thanks