Embryo Banking Support Thread / PGS wait

[ForeverAintEnough]

Hi all, I’ve just name changed but I’ve been on here loads and chatting to many of you under different user names ( irrational fear of being outed!). I wondered if there was interest in a ‘no transfer happening’ group? So those doing embryo banking or PGS or whatever.

I’ve just done one round of embryo banking and found the normal threads difficult with discussion of hoping for a Christmas pregnancies etc.

We are unfortunately taking the long way round with 3 rounds and no transfer. It looks like my first transfer might not be until June 2021.

If anyone wants to jump on feel free!

About us: Me 34, DH 36, TTC 3 years. Both male and female issues. x3 rounds of IVF all failed. Moved clinic to Lister for 3 rounds of embryo banking and PGS. One round of embryo banking just finished with x3 blasts sent off for PGS testing.

@2021ivfagain good luck with the batching. I did 3 rounds too and (after one short protocol didn’t work and adding IMSI really helped) and the 2nd of the 3rd was the best. We ended up with 7 blastocysts from 12 Day 3 embryos and 3 PGS normals (2 from 1 round). The rate of fertilisation was around 30-40 percent and only 1 egg fertilised in the last round so it was all very random. Batching feels better though as you have more to play with - will you test as you go? Mine were all frozen at Day 3 so I was clueless until the end about how many would make it etc. I am with CRGH. My consultant appointment to go through the ERA, NK cell and other results is on the 19th so let’s see what changes to FET protocol it brings (if any). Once again, good luck on your next IVF journey.

Hi @SarahK2000 I'm just slightly ahead of you with the same process at CRGH. I've just started my mock cycle to do the ERA, Emma, Alice, NK. We have 2 PGS normal but I'm 44 so won't be repeating the process. So nervous about transfer especially as so many people have had negative results with PGS normal embryos. I hope the consultation goes well on 19th x

Hi @IslandStars I’m so sorry to hear your FET didn’t work. I know your consultant said too soon for an ERA but I find that very annoying advice when you don’t have time and a plentiful supply of embryos to waste.

I got an ERA after two transfers and it showed my implantation window was Day 6 and I also had an Emma and Alice alongside it which showed high levels of bad bacteria and no good bacteria. So I think that’s very valuable information to have before doing a transfer.

I would definitely consider doing these before doing more ivf.

Hope everyone else is doing well.

@SarahK2000

Thank you. I’m doing two initially one in November and one in January. We might need to do an extra retrieval.

I’ll be trying the short protocol this time but my body did not like the long protocol last time. I felt it oversuppressed my ovaries even though my amh is good for my age. So my consultant has changed things based on previous cycles. I’m having a dual trigger as I had problems not having as many mature eggs regardless of how many eggs or follicles I had.

Mine will be frozen at day 3 and then PGS tested when I have completed my last cycle. The same as you have done.

Good luck with your next appointment on 19th.

Hi @Janefx40. It’s good you have two normal PGS embryos and that you are doing a lot of tests beforehand. Do you mind me asking how many rounds you did? I’m worried that two might not be enough for me. Good luck with your FET transfer.

Hi @2021ivfagain we did 3 rounds in the end but started off with a plan to do two and an option to add a third if need be. I think it's normal for CRGH to suggest two but then offer a third if need be. We ended up with 4 Day 5 Blastocysts across the rounds with 2 PGS normals which were actually from rounds 2 and 3 x

Hi @Janefx40. That’s really good. I’m thinking I might need to do 3. I only had 2 or 3 blastocysts at 38.

I expect you’re really pleased to get to this stage. It’s so good you have two normals. I’m getting quite nervous.

Last time I did IVF when I was 38 I did the long protocol, but this time it will be the short. I’m also having a dual trigger. Did you have the long or short protocol? Do you have any experience with the dual trigger?

Thanks

@2021ivfagain I've always done short protocols including when I had my first 2 rounds before DD. I've not had a dual trigger (although I've always taken a double dose of gonasi but not sure that is the same thing).

Yes I am pleased to have 2 PGS normals - we never expected that at my age. But in some ways I'm more nervous now. When we were doing the egg collections we were told we only had a 5% chance of success. So our expectations were low. Now we have a 50% which is better but still could go either way and I'm finding that more scary!

It's tricky when you freeze at day 3 because you don't really know how many blasts you will get. I think that probably pushed us towards the third round. Our rounds were as follows:

Round 1. 6 eggs. 1 fertilised!! Frozen on day 3. Made Blastocyst. Aneuploid.

Round 2: 12 eggs. 7 fertilised. 4 Day 3. 2 Blastocysts. 1 euploid.

Round 3. 6 eggs. 3 fertilised. 1 Blastocyst. Euploid.

So when we decided to do the third we had 5 Day 3s.

Hope that helps xxx

@2021ivfagain @Janefx40 you are right freezing embryos at day 3 requires a lot of patience. The only good part is you don’t lose heart with a cycle that isn’t as good. Like you, I also had my euploids from one or two cycles only. For my part, I had my consultant appointment and am a little overwhelmed with the next steps. I have to repeat my mock cycle as the ALICe ErA tests need to be repeated as not enough of a sample was available for testing. Also, they found I have endometriosis and I have to have a course of antibiotics and probiotics before another sample is taken. I also have elevated killer cells so will need steroids or intralipids and the lead doctor on that will decide what’s best. All in all, this means another mock cycle by the end of November and then after the new year another transfer, depending on results. I have not been feeling very good mentally and it’s impacting my career a lot (which is quite pressured and high profile). If any of you have spoken to good counsellors and can recommend them, I would be really grateful if you can let me know. Also, if you have any recommendations on the best probiotic if you have used. This is a long journey….wishing you all the best as always.

@Janefx40
Hello. Thanks so much for your message. I completely understand how you’re feeling more nervous. I’m feeling the same. I sometimes worry I’m not strong enough to do IVF again.

Your results are really good. My issue is egg maturation problem. I’m hoping the dual trigger will help.

I think you have a good chance.

@SarahK2000

I know it’s annoying that you need another mock cycle, but I think it’s good that they know why the last transfer unfortunately did not implant.

I think the protocol sounds very detailed and thorough. If you need to ask questions, could you email a nurse? I know how overwhelming it can be.

I know what you mean about IVF being difficult. I’m definitely struggling more this time. Last year my Dad had a massive stroke during my pregnancy and my mum had multiple falls. I feel as though IVF does add a lot more pressure to our lives. I think it’s important to make time for fun things like watching a film, cooking a nice meal or going out for a meal.

Usually the clinic offers one free counselling session. That might be helpful. Sometimes it’s good just to talk things through.

Optibac is a good probiotic and I think there is one you can take in pregnancy.

It is definitely a long journey. Take one day at a time.

@SarahK2000 sorry to hear about your troubles. Re probiotics there is a vaginal one called Canesflor and I take this along with an oral one called Femdopholis.

My work has also been affected but I’m trying to just cut myself some slack and do my best and accept my work is not of high quality and that management likely have noticed but it’s impossible to work to a high standard while going through all of his I find.

Thank you @2021ivfagain and @Dochas121 for your advice 😊 yes I have a nurse appointment next week so will ask all my questions then. I am sorry to hear what a tough time you have both had. You seem to have a healthy approach to dealing with it.

Hi all,

I wondered if anyone here might be able to give some advice! I have previously done two fresh cycles of IVF, resulting in a total of 4 transfers (5AA, 5AA, 4AA, 4AB). Three BFNs, one chemical. I lost a 5BB blast that didn't survive the thaw and still have one 3BA in the freezer. I was 41 when I had those collections and used a sperm donor. I have no known fertility issues so have to assume failures are mainly due to aneuploid embryos.

I'm 42 and want (hopefully) to do two more collections, then PGT everything and hope for a few euploids. The clinic do offer a 3-cycle PGT package but I can't afford that. Instead I was planning to take the same approach but with two cycles I pay for as I go.

My question is - my clinic say they have to freeze the embryos at the end of this first cycle, then once I've done the second cycle they'll thaw them, biopsy for PGT, refreeze and then thaw again for transfer if any are euploid. That seems like a lot of risk, to go through several round of thaw/freeze. Is that standard, or did other people have embryos biopsied before freezing? I've been told the alternative is PGS immediately after this round, but obviously I don't yet know how many blasts (if any) I will get, and it would mean if I need to do another collection and testing I'm paying for PGT twice when I can barely afford it once.

Anyone had a similar issue, and what did you do?

Hi @lucymills1234 I recognise you from other threads. Sorry you've been on such a long hard journey.

I did collection cycles at CRGH. They freeze at Day 3 until your final collection cycle which they unfreeze the previous day 3s and take them all to Day 5 for testing. They said it is slightly easier freezing on Day 3 but that you could freeze and refreeze about 10 times before it would be an issue (on day). The downside to freezing on Day 3 is that you don't actually know how many blasts you will get so we ended up adding another cycle in the end. I would have preferred to test as we went but our charge a set fee for up to 8 blasts so it would have been stupidly pricey

Best of luck. Really hope this works out for you. X

Sorry that was meant to say that they said you could freeze and refeeze about 10 times on day 5 without it being a problem x

@lucymills1234 perhaps look at other clinics. I was at Lister and did the biopsies at day 5/6 on the blastocysts just before freezing. They charge per embryo tested. The price went down a bit if you did over 5 embryos per cycle. But a per embryo charge felt fairer and more comfortable to me. I did look at others but they charged a flat fee per batch tested which felt really unfair if you only got one! I also didn’t love the idea of a day 3 freeze as I felt I had no idea how many day 5s I would have which was too anxiety inducing for me. So worth looking at different clinic approaches.

Worth saying I had one cycle with only one blastocyst so I paid £400 for the testing for that cycle. Next cycle I had 7 for testing so paid over £2k. But if I had got one in each and had to pay the £2.5k charged by some clinics I’d have been very unhappy.

@Janefx40 thanks very much for the reply. I think my clinic would go to day 5 blast stage on this round and then freeze - I need to double check as some of the info I got at my last consultation is now being contradicted by the clinic. Like yours, if I want to PGT as I go I'd have to pay every time - £2,500 for up to five blasts, then another £500 for each extra. Theoretically, if I got five blasts I could test now but that's a big if, and I am not optimistic about getting one normal from five blasts given stats for my age and my experience of four failures so far. I got two blasts from my first cycle (later revised to one - they missed a triploid and froze it) and five blasts from my second, so a lot depends on numbers this time. You have done amazingly well to get two euploids from four blasts! x

@Shamoo wow, that's great that you could pay per embryo. I should have mentioned that I am already underway at my current clinic - today is stims day 4 - so too late to change. I'm also not in London and treatment there would be really difficult for me. I had thought after my last consultation that blasts could be biopsied as I went, until a conversation with a nurse at my baseline scan when it became clear that there was major confusion. If you don't mind me asking, how many blasts did you test and how many euploids did you get?

@Shamoo totally agree that I would have preferred the approach you were offered. We really liked a lot of other stuff about the clinic but we knew the PGS thing was crazy because we were never going to have 7 blasts. Also if we'd been able to test as we went, we might have stopped after the second collection as we got a euploid. On the other hand, since Euploids don't guarantee you success it's probably better that we didn't and now have 2 to give us more chance.

I really wanted to do it this way but it's such a long process and I'm feeling pretty drained by it all. This month we are doing tests then a break then potential transfer in December so it will have taken 5-6 months to get from collection to transfer in the end!!

@lucymills1234 yes I was very lucky to get 2. I was reading another thread and found someone even mentioning me and my euploids on there as a story of hope! Very nice but felt a bit strange. I'll not be doing much celebrating though unless one of them turns into an actual baby! Long way to go yet.

Good luck with it all. Let us know how you get on xxx

Hi @lucymills1234 sorry I should have realised you were already underway. I do think clinics could (and should) do a much better of job of being honest on pricing and options.

I tested three rounds worth. First one I tested 2 and had 1 euploid. Second round I tested 1 and it was no good. Third round, amazingly, I managed to have 7 to test! 5 were euploid, one had no result and would need to be retested, and one was aneuploid. So I have six euploids from 10 tested. I was 40 for all of those cycles. They are not brilliant quality the five most recent ones are 4AA, 3BB, 3BB, 3BC, 3CB and the first one is a 4BC. Which makes me a bit nervous - but my doctor felt strongly that I didn’t need another round (and says that BC is still good, CB poor) and so I have stopped now and hoping one of those will do the job. Statistically it should, but still I feel anxious!

But I know my body and my mind isn’t fit for another go.

I have three untested from my earlier rounds - 3BB, 3BB, 4BB.

@Janefx40 it’s exhausting isn’t it. After my last round I knew I couldn’t do it again. My body is a wreck and im emotionally spent. Waiting for the phone calls!! Ive spent two and a half years having cycles, transfers, miscarriages, tests etc etc. Im done on collections now and just have to hope!

Wishing you lots of luck when you get to your transfer.

@lucymills1234 Just chiming in that my clinic (Lister) said that its risky/should be ideally avoided to thaw, test, and re-freeze for PGT-A and that they'd not usually recommend it :/

As someone else mentioned Lister allow you to pay per embryo £500 which seems so much more fair and flexible especially considering many people are just hoping to get 1-2 blasts per cycle to test.

I've read another poster on here that their clinic takes biopsies of all the blasts part of a cycle package as they go and then allow you to choose later which ones are actually sent to the external lab for PGT-A testing, but don't know how many clinics would do that. It seems ideal though because you can see how well you did overall and decide at the end which to test, all without any risk to the embryos of thawing/refreezing.

Afternoon ladies, hope everyone is as well as can be expected during IVF! Sorry have missed a some posts as i've not been around much, needed to take a break after the last BFN.

I'll be starting stims on Sunday, short protocol, so EC around 10th Nov. Will be doing a fresh transfer for the first time, then probably PGS the rest if i'm lucky to get enough. This will be my last EC, approaching 43 now and with 2 euploid failures i can't justify the expense or toll of it all any further.