male factor infertility - Q's if anybody would be so kind to help.

[Zoefitness]

So my DP has had the results of his first SA and I don't really understand the results. He didn't ask anywhere near the amount of questions that I would have.

This motility was normal. Count = 30mil and morphology = 2%.

How bad a result is this? I believe the doctors have said that if the result is the same on SA 2 - we will be put forward for fertility treatment.

Also does this mean that I will have to have tests before any potential treatment?

Thank you in advance, feeling rather anxious.

Hi zoefitness,
Your Dp's morphology is low, it should be at least > 4% . Might be worth starting him on vitamin supplements . Proxeed seems highly recommended for all the stuff needed, but it's expensive . However we was told to take selenium and zinc for low morphology.
Yeah you will still have to have test, bloods etc and investigations done. It's a long road unfortunately.

Thank you friends. So is it really difficult to move up by even 1%. DP is trying to reassure me that it's only 2% and average is 4%. He doesn't think it's that bad. I however, I am guessing that it's probably not so straightforward for him to even increase to 3%. However would you do that anyway?! I think his result is due to having mumps when he was younger - it affected his testicle.

This doesn't sound like it's going to be a straightforward journey! I can't believe that the idea of not having children could be a possibility for me. (Sorry i only found out those results today).

Thank you again x

well they say it's the hardest one to change.However my OH's morphology was 0.8% and then 2 % and this was before the vitamins so they clearly can change. (Were hoping vitamins will also show some improvement.) The 4% is the minimum amount. Please try not to worry, i was told that they thought my OH's sperm sample still should be enough to get me pregnant, because the motility was good, even though the count was slightly less. your DP's sample may also be okay next time, They may also send him to a urologist.
Whatever they do, there's loads that can be done and I'm sure you will get your baby ,I certainly hope and feel hopeful I'm still gonna get mine. Have you had any test so far Zoefitness.x

Thank you for your reassuring words friends.

I am going to get him on the supplements ASAP! That's fantastic that your oh's showed improvement.

If the second result comes back the same or worse, how do the doctors or do we decide if we go for IVF or IUI? I literally know nothing ATM.

I have had blood tests and the scans. All came back fine. Little paranoid about potential endometriosis but might just be me being paranoid.

Where are you in this journey? If you don't mind me asking.

Really can't thank you enough for making me feel more positive about this. It was quite scary hearing the results without being able to ask questions etc.

Morning Zoefitness.
Well we have been trying for roughly 2.5 years and we have just been refered to IVF/IUI by the fertility specialist. However they've also prescribed me clomid as a last attempt although i do ovulate on my own, i was willing to try anything.
I'm still hoping to try IUI as I don't feel ready for IVF. I assume they will make the decision when I see the consultant. I think if there's a slight male factor then IUI might be a good option as the sperm are not having to travel to get to the egg. However if it's unexplained IUI doesn't seem to increase your odds. I can highly recommend zita west's guide to fertility and assisted conception book. It literally as everything in there.
Also most of it depends on how long you have been trying, in our area, we had to have been trying at least two years before they would refer us, but that changes depending where you are.
Have you had you tubes checked with a hsg? They might want to do a lap and dye to check for endometriosis.
Totally know what you mean about being paranoid, I think we all go through that . I was 100 % sure my tubes must of been blocked and then they wasn't.

Hi friends, thanks for messaging me back again. 2.5 years is a long time to wait for a referral.

I have heard that they will prescribe the female clomid which is confusing when it is male factor but I'd be the same as you. Perhaps they do it to give you the best possible chances or a last attempt to conceive naturally. Who knows.

So DP hadn't mentioned previously but decided to tell me that also his motility reading was low. I am yet to see the actual results but, that's not great. Frustratingly, he really has no idea how bad this result is. He just keeps on saying 'they only test X amount of sperm' and I'm like, I'm sure they know what they're talking about.

I think I would also prefer IUI first because if it works, great and if not, at least you know you can try IVF.

I haven't had the dye test. My doctor mentioned it to me when I told her that I was worried about endo but she just said that the waiting list was too long!! I'm hoping now that with DP's results and because he has got us on the list, it will speed things up a bit for me also.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I have ordered it. Have a feeling that this is going to take over my life now!

I know it's been an emotional slog! we went to the Dr after a year but then it took a year for them to do two SA, luckily when we got to the specialist things have moved a lot quicker. Did his GP do his samples zoefitness? I actually asked OH to ring reception and get a copy of the results so i could compare them because he was much the same.
I'm not sure what he means by they only tested a certain amount. Do you reckon his results have upset him a bit? I think my OH still thought they was gonna say it was me , when they said they were referring us due to MF it was like it was all a surprise to him.
Unfortunately it probably will take over your life , it's super depressing being in this situation when every one else gets pregnant so easily and that's all you want. I thought i was doing well and then my little sister got pregnant and i had total breakdown about it. This group as really helped me, especially when i'm losing it a bit. its good to talk to be people who understand.
How long have you been trying zoefitness?

I know it's been an emotional slog! we went to the Dr after a year but then it took a year for them to do two SA, luckily when we got to the specialist things have moved a lot quicker. Did his GP do his samples zoefitness? I actually asked OH to ring reception and get a copy of the results so i could compare them because he was much the same.
I'm not sure what he means by they only tested a certain amount. Do you reckon his results have upset him a bit? I think my OH still thought they was gonna say it was me , when they said they were referring us due to MF it was like it was all a surprise to him.
Unfortunately it probably will take over your life , it's super depressing being in this situation when every one else gets pregnant so easily and that's all you want. I thought i was doing well and then my little sister got pregnant and i had total breakdown about it. This group as really helped me, especially when i'm losing it a bit. its good to talk to be people who understand.
How long have you been trying zoefitness?

I know it's been an emotional slog! we went to the Dr after a year but then it took a year for them to do two SA, luckily when we got to the specialist things have moved a lot quicker. Did his GP do his samples zoefitness? I actually asked OH to ring reception and get a copy of the results so i could compare them because he was much the same.
I'm not sure what he means by they only tested a certain amount. Do you reckon his results have upset him a bit? I think my OH still thought they was gonna say it was me , when they said they were referring us due to MF it was like it was all a surprise to him.
Unfortunately it probably will take over your life , it's super depressing being in this situation when every one else gets pregnant so easily and that's all you want. I thought i was doing well and then my little sister got pregnant and i had total breakdown about it. This group as really helped me, especially when i'm losing it a bit. its good to talk to be people who understand.
How long have you been trying zoefitness?

I know it's been an emotional slog! we went to the Dr after a year but then it took a year for them to do two SA, luckily when we got to the specialist things have moved a lot quicker. Did his GP do his samples zoefitness? I actually asked OH to ring reception and get a copy of the results so i could compare them because he was much the same.
I'm not sure what he means by they only tested a certain amount. Do you reckon his results have upset him a bit? I think my OH still thought they was gonna say it was me , when they said they were referring us due to MF it was like it was all a surprise to him.
Unfortunately it probably will take over your life , it's super depressing being in this situation when every one else gets pregnant so easily and that's all you want. I thought i was doing well and then my little sister got pregnant and i had total breakdown about it. This group as really helped me, especially when i'm losing it a bit. its good to talk to be people who understand.
How long have you been trying zoefitness?

I know it's been an emotional slog! we went to the Dr after a year but then it took a year for them to do two SA, luckily when we got to the specialist things have moved a lot quicker. Did his GP do his samples zoefitness? I actually asked OH to ring reception and get a copy of the results so i could compare them because he was much the same.
I'm not sure what he means by they only tested a certain amount. Do you reckon his results have upset him a bit? I think my OH still thought they was gonna say it was me , when they said they were referring us due to MF it was like it was all a surprise to him.
Unfortunately it probably will take over your life , it's super depressing being in this situation when every one else gets pregnant so easily and that's all you want. I thought i was doing well and then my little sister got pregnant and i had total breakdown about it. This group as really helped me, especially when i'm losing it a bit. its good to talk to be people who understand.
How long have you been trying zoefitness?

I know it's been an emotional slog! we went to the Dr after a year but then it took a year for them to do two SA, luckily when we got to the specialist things have moved a lot quicker. Did his GP do his samples zoefitness? I actually asked OH to ring reception and get a copy of the results so i could compare them because he was much the same.
I'm not sure what he means by they only tested a certain amount. Do you reckon his results have upset him a bit? I think my OH still thought they was gonna say it was me , when they said they were referring us due to MF it was like it was all a surprise to him.
Unfortunately it probably will take over your life , it's super depressing being in this situation when every one else gets pregnant so easily and that's all you want. I thought i was doing well and then my little sister got pregnant and i had total breakdown about it. This group as really helped me, especially when i'm losing it a bit. its good to talk to be people who understand.
How long have you been trying zoefitness?

Oh I see. My Dp has just had his second sample done so waiting for those results.

He is very in denial I think. He even mentioned something along the lines of me not being 100% fertile. I wasn't sure what he meant by it and we had had a couple of drinks at the time so not sure what he was getting at.
We've been trying 'officially' for over a year. However, I haven't been on any type of contraception for about three years. For the first two years of that, I was using ovulation sticks as a contraceptive but I didn't realise how long sprem can linger for so...

It's a roller coaster isn't it. It's good to hear that your going through the system a bit quicker now. How long until they have implanted something for you?

Hi, I just wanted to add my two cents. My oh also has 2% morphology with a 39mil count. The minimum count they are looking for is 15mil so my oh, ever the mathematician, sees it that if he had 4% morphology but only 15mil count, surely that would be worse that the current status. I can kind of see his point. He's got to have another sa and this time they are going to test how it swims through "cervical fluid" as that is a good test of whether the morphology is an issue.

Hi Zoefitness,

we had male factor infertility due to low motility - I can't actually remember the number but think it was half the minimum so may have been 2% as with your OH. My tests all fine. We had been trying on and off for 3 years before approaching our GP who sent us for tests - the appointment was a couple of months later at the ACU at our local hospital, they immediately offered us a round of IVF.

We put it off for a while as it was a lot to absorb that I would need to go through a full cycle of treatment despite being 'healthy'. It really is a test of a relationship, my OH repeatedly said he didn't want me to go through it for him and would understand if i wanted to end things so I'd have the chance of a family in the future with someone else. Of course I wanted a family with him so took a deep breath when we were ready, went back to our GP and were re-referred to the ACU where we had treatment 4 months later.

One round of IVF with ICSI and we had one successful pregnancy and 3 frozen embryos. DS is now 8 months old. The success rates are not high by any means and I know others who have had many cycles, so realise that we have been very very lucky.

Your post took me back to how confusing and scary it all felt at the beginning and how worried we both were about our relationship.

Gathering all the info you can, as you are doing, about how fertility works and what your results mean for you both, preparing together for how the treatment will be for you (in my case injections, every other day internal scans, surgical egg retrieval, embryo return and embarrassing disclosures to work so I could keep going off to the hospital) and how he can support you during the process, is very important.

I also spent lots of time reassuring him that it was not his 'fault' and that we would find a way to make it work with or without biological children if it came to it (he knew I really couldn't imagine not being pregnant someday though). We tried to be optimistic about the treatment but still spent the time talking about what we'd do if it didn't work - you have to have a back up plan!

If you need to and decide to try, you are not alone! Best of luck to you OP x

Thanks for your message sinplydivine. Your OH certainly has a point. That test sounds interesting..wonder why we haven't been offered that one.
Good luck to you both tho, I'm sure we will all get there.

Celledora - thanks so much for your message. It's really nice to get advice from people who have been through it. Your OH sounds incredibly sweet and understanding. I just hope that mine will be. I am struggling with the thought of going through the process of IVF. I suffer from MS so I already go though quite a lot Health wise. I am however, willing to go anything to get pregnant.

I have heard that you get some kind of counselling before you start the process, is that true?

Hi Zoefitness,
I've just started the Clomid yesterday as AF showed her ugly head. I'm So hoping it works. I was referred for IVF on the 3rd but not heard anything yet. I'm currently checking the post 4 times a day haha. When they first mentioned IVF to me, I was so set against it. The thoughts do get easier though the more you read/know somehow it doesn't seem as scary anymore.
You will be offered counselling Zoefitness and this page is full of helpful people going through the same, they know exactly how you feel. whatever you decide is right for you, you don't have to do it alone.

Hello,
Just wanted to tell you my story as it sounds very similar to what you're going through.
When my dh got his results back he had 1 percent morphology then on the 2nd test 2 percent. He too was very dismissive of the results claiming it wasn't a problem. I tried to get him to take vitamins but it was a struggle. He did however make a few lifestyle changes. He loves cycling so changed his saddle, started wearing baggy boxer shorts etc. I had lots of tests and they all came back clear.
The thought of ivf terrified me as I also have epilepsy controlled through medication but I was scared of what the drugs would do to me. My doctor suggested trying clomid while waiting for fertility treatment.
The second month of clomid i fell pregnant. Unfortunately that pregnancy ended in early miscarriage but I went on the fall pregnant 2 months later and now have a 17 month ds.
I don't know why or how this happened but I just wanted to reassure you that a low morphology rate can result in a positive outcome.
I hope it goes well for you x

Aw thank you friends. I hope that you get your letter very soon.
What are the side effects of clomid?
Thank you again - you are very kind.

Ah toolchest - that's just what I needed to hear. That is so wonderful. I have heard a few stories now where the female partner starts taking the clomid and the couple fall pregnant. How does that even work when it's male infertility. Suppose it doesn't matter really! Really hope that happens to me! Sorry to hear about your miscarriage's. You must be a very strong lady! X

Hello, room for one more story? Alrhough, were not at the end of our story yet.

We were ttc for a year before going to gp after no pregnancies. I'm overweight so we were convinced that was the problem. Gp referred me for tests and asked for my DH to come in so he could be referred. He said he would do that if my tests were clear.... Anyway long and short of it was my scans were OK and his showed very low count - 0.1 mill per ml and very low motility - 4% in first test but now we're down to none.
The first test he had he was very much in denial. Second one he was very much in denial. Third one devastated. Luckily we had a good gp who didn't refer us straight for fertility treatment but to a male fertility specialist. Who did tests and then referred on to Jonathan Ramsay. We've seen him one and have a follow up next month. He prescribed DH tamoxifen to see if it improves things enough for Icsi. If not he will do surgical retrieval. If that doesn't work then we've talked about options. DH has always said if we can't have children together he would like to try donor as it will still be my child and he could love any child of mine. It's good to know there's a plan but if that ends up being our option we will be devasted. We're now 2 and 1/2 years in of ttc and seen many friends and family get preg and have babies. We've told friends and family which helps tbh to have it out in the open and not a secret. It's been so hard at times. I'm a health visitor and found it too hard doing my job so have changed careers and now also work less hours. We've thrown ourselves into having amazing holidays and doing up our house and that's helped. Our marriage is so strong, this really has bought us closer together . We're now in a good place regarding it all. No longer using ovulation sticks or charting when we ttc which is a huge huge relief. We just have unprotected sex when we want it and it's so much more relaxed. We do both take vitamins and I've lost 3 stone. DH lost 2 stone too actually. It's lovely that when my period comes I'm no longer devasted as I don't expect it not to come anymore. It's a long hard journey but you will get there. There's still really hard days but just keep talking. We're optimistic but realistic that DH sperm is so low that our chances aren't amazing but we know we're being seen by the best and we're doing all that we can to improve things so what more can we do.
Good luck.

Aw thank you Mrs Darcy for your post. I like your positivity, it's inspiring.

Congratulations on your weight loss!
I have heard of Mr. Ramsay, he is supposed to be one of the best isn't he. Your are in the best hands.

I'm totally not surprised that you left your job - I would too. We have also shared with friends and family. I am a very open and honest person, it wouldn't feel right not saying anything.

My partners second SA has come back really low again so we now have our referal. I cannot wait to see the specialist. I just want to get the ball rolling now.

Weirdly, last night I started to get some very strange symptoms myself and now I'm even more anxious. The right hand side of my pelvis (lower) seems to have inverted in slightly - roundabouts where my ovary should lie (I think). So super worried now! Mind you I had a scan of my ovaries done about two-three months ago so hopeful it's nothing too serious. Feel like it might have something to do with endo. Who knows...

I hope that everybody is doing well. X

Hi Zoefitness,

I've finished my first round of Clomid, currently on cycle day 14 so just started the 2ww.The only side effect I've had is hot flushes, (only while I was taking them, but they were pretty bad.)
Really sorry to hear about your DP's second SA sample,has he been sent to a urologist or is the referral for you? ( I'd give it a few weeks and ring them to see if they've received your referral, you could also ask be put on a cancellation list.)

Hi friends.

Agh fingers crossed for you!! I'd be symptom slotting like a mad woman from here on in. But, most of my friends with babies say that they didn't have any symptoms at all in the 2ww.

I'm wondering if I'll be put on clomid. My doctor did say that if I was super fertile, it may have cancelled out DP's poor sperm count/ morphology/ motility. That makes me think, clomid will probably be my first step.

How long do you have to take it for? And what next after that?

So far, it's DP's issues. But I'm thinking that I may have something wrong too. I'm going to make sure that I get a laparoscopy and that my tubes get checked. My scans were normal and blood tests.

I'm actually starting to get a little excited now!

*spotting. Predictive text grr

Whilst I don't know, I wouldn't of thought endo would do that. You would have to have a lap & dye to confirm endo though. They thought I may have it as I have really heavy, clotted and painful periods but because I got the offer of whatever I wanted I just thought transfer me straight away. I think I just had enough of trying for so long, I just went with it. I'm now wondering if this was the right decision.
I've just received the first set of paperwork for the IVF,I've been balling my eyes out for 5 days and have not managed to pluck up the courage to fill it in, never mind send it. When I do send it I have to ring to book an appointment.
Good luck with your appointment Zoe, hope it goes quick for you. All this hopelessness seems a lot better when you see the specialist and have a plan of action. Well it's much better then being in limbo.