Anyone starting IVF soon? Join me (3)

[purplemeggie]

Ha! I was just about to post the last message in the old thread linking to this, but I'm too late, we've already filled it up! I'll do the same as last time and send PMs to everyone who's been on the thread recently, but everyone's welcome

Something else occurred to me, Ranch and I thought I'd post a quick line before I forgot about it. There was some research - Shellster - was it you who found it? (Shellster is definitely the Queen of Research) about transfers having a higher success rate if there was sperm around, so it recommended DTD between EC and ET.

Shellster - hopefully you won't need to accept, because this cycle will make it all happen for you. I really hope so. I think otherwise, the difference may be that I have an extra couple of years on you...my DS will now be 8 before another child makes an appearance and although he is as keen as ever on a sibling, that age difference, our ages, the relative ease of life with an older child - all these things make me wonder if we should accept our lot rather than use up all of ds' childhood wishing there were more of us.

I have been a lurker recently...nipping in 3 or 4 times a day to follow everyone, but I don't feel as though I have much to add. I see a strong group of women doing great things whilst going through IVF!!

Karou I can't get my mind around how many eggs you have...it sounds like Chicken Run. How amazing to donate and to help others.

Purple your PMA is inspiring and I'm keeping everything crossed for a successful transfer. I completely echo your sentiments about maternal age and DC age. Can't believe I'm 42 in a few months...how did that happen exactly? And my DC will be 4 in a few weeks. In my mind's eye I always envisaged having two, even three children, one or two years apart. Should I ever manage to conceive via IVF, my DC will be nearly five years old. Whilst the age gap is far from ideal, I will just be happy to complete my family and to provide a much wanted sibling. Whilst I think an age gap can be important as children, I think it is less so as adults. Just a thought.

Shellster reading eagerly your posts with little gems of information. Any signs that your AF is arriving? Mine is also due about now...tomorrow to be precise, though I don't have any signs as yet. Don't know about you, but I just want to get this cycle started now so I feel as though I have a chance of success, however slim that may be.

Bedouin I discovered at the start of my first cycle that I have low AHM and similarly I don't produce loads of follicles. So like Shellster says, you are not alone.

Blue I love your idea of keeping busy at work, a great way to focus mind on other issues. I'm self-employed and work from home much of the time, so a bit hard to emulate and my mind wanders back to IVF.

I had my scratch last week. Far from pleasant, more bleeding than I perhaps anticipated and also more crappy pain a few days afterwards. Interestingly though, no antibiotics. I've been prescribed lubion on top of the cyclogest this time re: low progesterone - implantation failure theory. Advised to inject every other day from the day of ET. Anyone have experience of lubion? Otherwise, I'm sick of wheatgrass and focusing upon protein intake. I'm definitely a carb girl at heart and can honestly say that I'm missing my usually high intake of bread, which I've replaced with different types of plant-based protein.

A big wave to those I have missed.

Hope your journey goes well today, Purple, and that your flying visit to Prague is successful.

What time's your scan tomorrow, Bedouin? I'm in at 9am; a bit kinder than yesterday's 7:20!

Get better soon, Waiting - glad to hear you're still with us, but all kinds of not-glad about your ulcer.

DarkChoc - your Chicken Run comment made me laugh! I'm sitting on a whole brood. I'm just desperately hoping it all works first time as I don't know how/if I could afford a second time. I'm with you on missing carbs. I've just had my protein bar for lunch, after a shake for breakfast. I really fancy some crisps, or something else carby and savoury, but keep reminding myself it's not forever, and it's for the best.

To you lovely ladies saying I'm being generous for donating, I don't want you to think it's completely altruistic. About 75% of it is because I've long wanted to donate eggs - I grew up watching my dad give blood and sort of had it instilled in me that that's what you do; give what you can. But there's also the fact that my clinic's egg sharing policy means that many of the IVF costs are covered, presumably by the recipient. It would have been a lot harder for me to do IVF without being a donor. So it sort of worked out well for me in that I wanted to do it and that I seem to be good at making the eggs. I do feel a little bit guilty at there being a woman out there effectively paying half of my IVF costs, but I figure we're both getting a lot out of this, so it probably balances.

I was reading through a BuzzFeed list of quotes from YA literature this morning and found a quote they'd pulled from one of my favourite books, and indeed the one I took my MN nickname from, as Karou is the main character and she has blue hair. I read this quote and it made me think of this thread and staying positive. It's a bit twee, but I like it and wanted to share it as it seems sort of apt.

Hope? Hope can be a powerful force. Maybe there’s no actual magic in it, but when you know what you hope for most and hold it like a light within you, you can make things happen, almost like magic.
Laini Taylor, Daughter of Smoke and Bone

Great, thanks for all the advice. I'm drinking water & peeing like there's no tomorrow and walking around whispering to follicles. They love a bit of gossip ;-)

Second scan tomorrow. Hopefully the news is better.

Bedouin my AMH was 8 & I clearly don't produce lots of follicles but I guess the end results counts more if you've got good quality? better to have fewer good ones that loads of rubbish ones? That's what I'm hoping for anyway!

Good luck for tomorrow, Ranch - that's you, me and Bedouin all on our second scans. Hopefully your follicles are doing well; growing bigger and stronger.

Hi everyone,

Looks like tomorrow is a busy day! Good luck with your scans Karou, Bed and Ranch

Purple, thank you for your comments. BIL does not know about the IVF- would certainly make life easier but DH does not want to tell any of his friends or family. DH wants to see if this last cycle before IVF is a success (unlikely!) and if not he will rearrange BIL and we will have to suck up the cost of amending his flights.

I must admit, hearing that my cycle would have to be delayed came as a bit of a shock. I thought maybe it was common place and I was being naïve before. The nurse was very apologetic about it and left us alone to discuss what we wanted to do, I did say to DH maybe we should look elsewhere but it feels a bit late in the day. We chose the clinic for tests because it is local and their charges are competitive. We found them to be really good to deal with so naturally went to them when we decided to start IVF, their success rates are really good so weighing it all up we decided to stay put. I am on the antagonist (I think that is right) protocol.

Enjoy Prague Purple and best of luck!!

Karou, thank you for posting that quote, gave me little shivers. Will have to add that book to my list of books to read (I'm a complete book worm)

Bed, I'd not heard of overnight oats - will certainly try them though. Had a quick google and like the idea of putting yogurt in too, love yogurt.

Ranch, I do hope the pep talk to your follicules helped.

Re age gaps my DSis is 5 and a bit years younger than me and we have always been close.

My first scan isn't due until 15 June now so won't have much to report but will keep reading.

Lucie, if you are reading, hope you are ok.

Good evening follicle-growers. It sounds like there's a lot of water being drunk this week.

Waiting I'm not surprised about the ulcer given all you've been through, but that does suck and I hope it heals up soon. Those things are so painful.

purple really thinking of you this week. I have everything crossed. I've not been ignoring your question, but didn't want to reply because I've had a pretty full-on couple of days.

Basically I had some spotting yesterday morning (only yesterday, really? Feels like a lifetime ago), tried desperately not to panic, but hard not to. Saw GP yesterday and went for a reassurance scan today, bricking it all the way in even though I've not had any more spotting. Scan all fine, one little embryo is sitting in it's yolk sac in the right place (no ectopic), no visible problems, no sign of embie #2. I got to hear its little heart thumping away, galloping like a steam train. More tears! . It's not just dildocam, purple, it's dildomike too! Sounds like a dodgy pornstar

So it looks like everything's ok. Apparently bleeds in early pregnancy are very common, and even more so with IVF. Back to crossing fingers...

I'm definitely not giving away any more fairy dust tonight, but wish everyone well with scans tomorrow Bedouin, Karou and Ranch. Hope the follies are drinking like it's Christmas all over the globe.

Shellster where are you up to?

Yes DarkChoc, my period did quietly arrive. I have done IVF many times now and have developed some rituals. Healthy diet up until EC, stop at favorite vegie burger shop on way home from EC for burger and fries, posted [vent!] every detail on here during my IVF cycles, get BFN, repeat process. So I feel like I need to change things in order to produce a BFP and for some reason this has included not spilling out every detail, but just enjoying the thread knowing other women are going through this. I know it's crazy. My eggs are not going to be good or bad based on if I post on here that my period arrived and I did my first injection this morning. But it's just what my mind is telling me to do. Will be lovely to cycle right along side you.

Yes purple, I did read a study where they had some couples have sex around the time of transfer and others abstain. While the pregnancy rates were similar, there was a much higher miscarriage rate in the couples that abstained from sex and they theorised that the sperm still plays a role in developing the embryo at this stage. Guess it makes sense as in a natural cycle, you don't abstain from sex after DTD at ovulation time.

Me again. Just came back from my day 2 scan. I had been putting it out of my mind until now but on the way, I decided that I would like 13-14 follicles to proceed with IVF. She checked my R ovary first - only 5 follicles. Okay, don't panic shellster. My left is usually the better responder and there could be 7-8 on there. She checks my left - two! Seven measly follicles.

I am sick of this IVF having no rhyme or reason to it. I have done DHEA and Aspirin in the lead up to my previous IVF cycles and instead of the usual 5-8 follicles, I then started with 15, 16 and 19 follicles for my last 3 IVF cycles. So I do the same prep work this time, and even add in yoga and take up a newspaper delivery route to make me walk, and I've got only 7!

So I'm not going ahead and hoping next month produces more. It's going to be a long month this cycle now while I wait to see if I do indeed produce more next cycle or if I can no longer deny the fact that my fertility is down the bottom of a slippery slope and my baby dream is out of reach.

Oh cat, DildoMike sounds like a lovely dodgy pornstar! Very glad your scare turned out to be nothing bad.

Sorry your scan wasn't as high as you wanted, Shell. Sounds sensible to push it back a cycle if you know you've had more follicles in previous times. It doesn't seem fair at all that you've done everything the same but not come out with the same results.

I had my second scan today; this will be day 10 of injections. My follicles are still there, they've grown, with the biggest now at 19mm, a couple at 16, and the rest 12 and lower; not quite as big as they'd like. So the plan is to have me back in for another scan on Monday, with an aim to grow them a bit more over the weekend, then will most likely schedule egg collection for Wednesday. I'm assuming that would mean a day 5 transfer the following Monday, but will wait and see what they say. I should get a call from them some time today with my appointment time for Monday.

I'll be out of gonal-f by Monday, so will mention that to them when they call. Don't want to have to race all over the place last minute to get more if needed.

A quick question for those of you who have been through egg collection before. Roughly how long does it all take? My Mum's going to drive me there, but I think she's wondering if she can take off whilst I'm under, as we'll be near family, and I expect she'd like to make the most of the day and go visiting. Is there a lot of waiting for the people not undergoing the procedure, or is it fairly quick? Thanks!

For my egg retrieval I had to get there super early to be prepped, there was a bit of hanging around before the procedure (there were two other ladies having retrievals the same day and I was after them). The procedure itself was only like 15-20 mins long, then they made me have a short lie down and drunk some hit chocolate and eat some biscuits, then I got changed and left. I was probably there for a couple of hours altogether, maybe a bit longer, but a lot of that was because I was third in the queue, not because it takes a particularly long time. That said, some people feel worse than others afterwards, so you might need longer, and/or your clinic might have different expectations.

I had to arrange for someone to come get me (they wouldn't let me leave otherwise!) and they were able to tell me what time I should arranged that for, so if you ask your clinic they may be able to give you a sense of what timings to expect.

Cat I am glad everything was ok, and how thrilling it must have been to meet dildoMike! That heartbeat must be the best sound in the world.

Waves at Darkchoc chuckled at chicken run too. Argh... hot fresh bread - I love baking... these are sparse times. So the E scratch is performed well in advance or near ET?

Thanks Shellster good to know there are others too. It could be worse I guess, and we could produce nothing at all. Ah read your update - I'm sorry things aren't going as planned (hug). I hope the next round produces the number and quality you need.

Ranch I found myself chatting to my little dudes/dudettes today . I hope your scan went ok I'll keeping popping in to see how you're going.

Sounds like thinks going well Karou - it's better for quality when its slow and steady isn't it?...at my last scan I mentioned I couldn't remember how much I had left (as they increased my dose by half before i even started) and they just gave me a box of 900 without charge. Maybe its built in to the cost of the treatment? I guess getting the stuff delivered in time would be an issue.
They have the same system at ours re egg donation, but it is still a wonderfully generous thing to do... take the praise Oh and that quote is just wonderful; thanks for sharing.

Where did the day go? Had my scan at 8am, and it's a bit of a drive, so a very early start. Who knew I was a poor responder with a shy left ovary? Just hoping that doesn't make it difficult for them to get to the follicles - of course most are on the left hand side. Scan revealed 19, 16, 15, 13, 12, 11mm follicles, so she said we are hoping for 3 at EC. I too am having another scan on Monday and then possible collection on Wednesday. I have just enough stims to get me to Monday. As you said Karou, Wednesday would mean a 5 day transfer on the next Monday... I know that is ideal, but with so few eggs, I might ask them for a bit later, just in case it looks like a 3 day is necessary.

I'll peek back later to see how you're all doing.

Shell sorry to hear your scan didn't go well. I only had 7-8 follicles on my first scan. I had about 12 altogether by the second scan but we collected the first 7. You obviously know your body though and what is best for you.

Purple, good luck in prague, really hope it works out for you this time.

Blue, I was probably at the clinic for about 3 hours for egg collection but I had general anaesthetic so they wanted to keep an eye on me for a bit afterwards. The actual procedure only took about 30 mins so if you are just being sedated you might be out sooner.

Hi trixie, I'm ok thanks just eager to get started again but also stressing myself out a lot about it as well. I am also on antagonist cycle. What medication and doses have they put you on? You have a really good AMH.

I contacted another clinic who looked at my cycles and they told me because they are so short (22 days) then it's likely I would develop a dominant follicle before the end of my previous cycle and would need careful monitoring to ensure this follicle was collected even if it meant sacrificing others. I did have a fairly large follicle which was 17mm on day 8 which had disappeared by my day 10 scan. I don't know if it ovulated or just shrunk and disappeared. I didn't start the Cetrotide until the evening of day 9 which I think is late considering I normally ovulate around day 11-12 naturally. Anyway I've convinced myself that my cycles are abnormal now and ivf isn't going to be any good for me. I just feel so drained and tired with all this and I've only done it once.

Hi Ladies,

Just reading up on all your updates. Using my phone so but awkward to reply to all comments but thinking of you all.

Day 7 scan today and there were four follicles between 13-9mm. At least it was better than two on Weds. Water and talking to them definitely helped!

I'm starting in Cetrotide tonight then back in Monday. Earliest EC will be Weds but it'll be a day 3 transfer and they said they like to get them back in when there's so few.

Feel more positive than Weds but trying not to get my hopes up. Got to be realistic about the odds.

Much love to you all & your follicles!

Shellster just saw your news. I'm sorry - it's really f*&ing unfair. I'm disappointed for you. Not sure I fully understand your post though, are you going to go ahead or wait? Obviously you've made more follicles in the past so I can see why you'd prefer to wait, although 7 isn't a bad number (well, at least not for us 'poor responders'). I know you want to give this your absolute best shot though. How very, very irritating. There really isn't any rhyme or reason for it - just irritating pot luck.

Purple thinking of you today, I hope you have a nice peaceful transfer.

Hello to everyone else, lots going on here - need to catch up! I had an AMH blood test today - not really looking forward to the result.

Karou, bedouin karou and ranch, you're all responding about the same give or take so it's nice that you can all be going through this together. I hope your smaller follies continue to grow. I'll be following you now that my IVF cycle has been cancelled and all I can do is sit and wait for 4 weeks.

trixie, will your first scan on 15th June be at the start of your actual IVF cycle? If so, we will be IVFing together since I cancelled IVF this cycle with not much happening on my ovaries.

I know what you mean about this being draining lucie! Even though you've only done IVF once, it still is mind consuming even after the cycle finishes. You wonder what to do next, you get different information and there are no clear answers so all you can do is constantly wonder. I am curious about the new clinic stating that the dominant follicle must be collected even if it means sacrificing others. Did they give a reason for this? I have heard that the first to mature follicle often contains the best egg. Was this their reasoning?

Thanks for your condolances blue and everyone. I am waiting until next cycle to start. I know 7 isn't bad for a poor responder but while the average person has 1/2 of their day 2 follicle produce mature eggs in IVF, I seem to have only about 1/4 respond. Even when I started with 15 follicles, I get 3-5 mature eggs. So if I start with only 7, I'll be lucky to get 2 mature eggs. So I'm waiting to see if next cycle starts with more follicles. If not, I have to accept that perhaps I just can't start with 15 follicles now that I have been going at IVF for 2 years and am turning 38 in July. And of course if age is the reason for my dramatic drop in quantity of follicles rather than just a one off bad cycle, I can only assume my quality is down the cliff now too. Sorry, I'm being very depressing. Just need to get it out of my system.

purple, thinking of you and sending your embryos some magic defrosting dust. You've waited in the patience queue long enough. Your turn and my thoughts are with you.

Shell, they didn't really say the reason for collecting the dominant one but I assume it would be the best quality one so that's probably it. I will have to keep a close eye on it this time and if I have a larger one on my first scan again then I'm going to ask to start the cetrotide earlier.

Blue, good luck with your amh.

Ranch, great that your follicles are growing. Fingers crossed for you x

Good luck purple hope it all goes well in Prague

Shellster sorry to hear you had to cancel this month, hopefully you will have more follicles next month, maybe we will be cycling at the same time as I'm not sure I will be up for FET when AF arrives due to this pain I'm in. Had an appt last night with a gastroenterologist who isn't convinced I have an ulcer and is going to do a scan, bloods and endoscopy to check gallbladder and pancreas too.

Hello to everyone else, glad all seem to be progressing well with Stimms/follicles etc

Lucie I know what you mean about the timing of cetrotide, I was the opposite and think I was started too early on it hence why my cycle dragged on a bit. Hope it goes ok

Yes that's the problem waiting I don't want to start too early and slow things down but I don't want to risk them getting too big either. It's really difficult. Hopefully day 8 will be ok.

I had my first scan day 5 and the biggest follicle I think was 8-9 mm if I remember correctly, they said I def wouldn't need to start cetrotide as follicles too small.
That evening they called me to say e2 level was high and to start cetrotide ??

Looking back I think they panicked, started it too early anticipating e2 to rise too quick yet it didn't actually go terribly high after that but follicles were then slow to grow and varying sizes and I had 14 days Stimms altogether. Some follicles were 29-30mm at ec and I think they were just 'overcooked' and that's why despite having 16 eggs collected only three got to freezing and don't get me started on that we wanted blastocysts frozen but they wouldn't culture to day five and froze on day 2/3.

If I'm honest, I don't think they will survive the thaw when we get to that point (waiting to feel better and get AF) as I felt so lousy, was run down and at the moment I just feel like it won't work which fills me with dread as then I'm facing another fresh cycle and the drugs really didn't suit me.

Hello lovely ladies - didn't have a chance to post while I was away, but did grab a few minutes to catch up on the thread from time to time, so I saw all your lovely good luck messages. Thank you so much xxxx

Shellster - I'm so sorry, lovely girl. I really don't like the rules of this game. Thinking of you xxx

Ranchgirl - glad to hear that your follicles listened to reason. Thinking plumping thoughts your way

Trixie - okay, I hear you. It's really difficult to know what to do for the best when you're not in a position to tell people what's going on and you can imagine them thinking you're just being difficult. Hope you manage to sort things out to minimise the stress.

Cat, I'm glad that dildomike gave you some relief (sorry, couldn't resist a smutty joke!). Glad to hear the kitten is safe and sound.

Welcome back, Choc and Lucie - we missed you.

Don't care what you say, Karou, as the recipient of donor eggs, it's an amazing thing you're doing and you should be proud of yourself.

Hello Karou - exciting that you're nearly there. How are you feeling?!

Chin up, Waiting - most of them DO make it out of the freezer, here's hoping for yours.

Hello Persipan, what stage are you at?

Hi Blue - did your week improve?

So....our news is that of our three frosties, two were excellent quality hatching blastocysts and the third one was looking a bit ropy (apparently), but they decided to freeze it anyway. The thinking was that they would put back one of the excellent ones and the third one and that we would keep one excellent one back for another go.

When it came to it though, number three really wasn't looking very good at all (the doctor's English isn't that great, but from what he said, it sounded as if it was quite fragmented) and he said that if there's a really ropy one it can compromise the success of implantation of the good one it's put back with. So we decided to put back the two excellent ones and give up on number three.

So that's us done. No more back-up plans, it needs to work this time, please. And I think we're okay with that. We've given it a really good shot, we've got two excellent quality hatching blastocysts from a 20-year-old donor....if this doesn't work, nothing will.

The day of the transfer was perfect. It was gloriously sunny, I woke up really early, so I did 10 rounds of sun salutations, drank earl grey tea in the sunshine on the balcony and then had breakfast. I spent the morning crocheting a blanket for my niece's baby. It was all very lovely and peaceful.

Good news Purple - I'm pleased for you. Sounds like you've got 2 great quality embryos on board so now you can just relax and enjoy the 2ww (ha de ha).I've got a great feeling about this one xx

Purple I have everything crossed for you. Hope that fairy pops by to see you

lucie, I too have short cycles and I actually start daily estrogen midway during my luteal phase prior to the IVF cycle starting. Apparently this is when the follicles for the following cycle appear and this stops one becoming dominant for the following cycle. Are you staying with this new clinic? If you speak to them again, I would love to know their reasoning for collecting the first to mature follicle if you find out.

Sorry to hear you're still in pain waiting? Do you feel this is just continuing from the IVF treatment or something unrelated?

lucie, I agree with you about collecting dominant follicle, and hence with you too waiting about not letting dominant follicles grow to 29-30mm! I had one cycle where I two large follicles and three small ones. The two large were allowed to overmature so the three smaller ones could catch up. But then two eggs broke apart with the ICSi process which the Dr said is what happens to overmature eggs. So I lost my two first to mature/best quality eggs as a trade off for 3 smaller less quality ones that didn't make the distance. Don't want to do that again!

purple, put a tear in my eye reading your post... no more back up plan... it needs to work this time... I THINK we're okay with that. I think it strikes a nerve because I'm in the same position of my final IVF and can't bear that thought. Please God, just let it work for purple. Two perfect embryos. Surely it should work. And then give me some faith that good things can finally happen and give me a glimmer of hope that I will be next.

And I totally second what you say about karou... amazing gesture!

Thank you, gorgeous girls xxx

Meant to post this, taken at Prague airport. It seemed appropriate