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Infertility

Our Infertility Support forum is a space to connect with others in the same position, discuss causes, treatment and IVF, and share infertility stories of hope and success.

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Original poster

Bleeding at 3dp5dt - definitely bad news?

37 replies

LittleBear01 · 07/02/2015 17:30

I think I probably already know the answer to this but a little part of me is clinging on to hope...

I had my second IVF (1st was BFN) 5 day ET on Wednesday just gone (2 blastocysts put back), and this morning I woke up to cramps. When I went to the loo, there was a bit of brown blood on my panty liner. When I went again at 1pm, I wiped and there was red blood. Now it's brown again. There's not loads, but I'm feeling very sad.

Am I right to think the worst or is there any reason to stay hopeful?

Thanks in advance.

OP posts:

lucieloos · 07/02/2015 17:49

Maybe it is implantation bleeding?

Notmeagain1 · 07/02/2015 18:03

Fingers crossed it is implantation bleeding. :(( grasping at straws)))

Hope it turns out ok.

Original poster

LittleBear01 · 07/02/2015 18:22

Thank you both x

OP posts:

Sugarplummy84 · 07/02/2015 18:35

I had this with my daughter and it was implantation bleeding. Fingers crossed

Helix1244 · 07/02/2015 22:51

I think that would be very early for a period type bleed.

I had bleeding either 12 dpo i think with my failed cycle.
If it is your dr may need to consider different progesterone or something.
Fx

Sunnysideup5883 · 07/02/2015 22:57

Cramping and blood spotting-smear - I had both these symptoms with every pregnancy.

Shellster52 · 08/02/2015 09:31

Do you normally get that brown spotting this early in your cycle LittleBear? That does seem very early to be a period.

Original poster

LittleBear01 · 08/02/2015 10:58

Thanks very much for all of your messages, I really appreciate the support.

Unfortunately I now have what seems to be full flow AF, so convinced it's all over.

Shellster: I never have spotting and in fact my natural cycles are long - normally 37 days.

I'm really scared that this means I won't ever be able to get pregnant - my body didn't even give the embryos a chance to implant. I'm feeling absolutely heartbroken.

On my first IVF I started AF at 7dp5dt and thought that was early, but consultant said it wasn't anything to worry about.

Has anyone else experienced such an early period?

OP posts:

Inaiya89 · 08/02/2015 11:56

Did they put you on any progesterone meds to help with implantation and to lengthen out your luteal phase? Dont give up hope yet.

Inaiya89 · 08/02/2015 11:57

By the way, how old are you, if you dont mind me asking.

Original poster

LittleBear01 · 08/02/2015 13:06

Helix: I agree, I think there must've been a problem with progesterone.

Inaiya: I was on crinone gel - 8% once a day in the evening. I'm 32.

I usually have a perfect luteal phase - it takes me until about day 23 to ovulate (according to OPK) but then have a period 14 days later.

There's nobody at my clinic over the weekend, and the emergency line is just an answering service, so I I have to wait until 8 tomorrow morn to speak to anyone

OP posts:

AnnieHoo · 08/02/2015 13:41

That doesn't sound right at all Littlebear the Crinone should be keeping AF at bay. AF at 3dp5dt is very soon, is there a possibility it's heavy spotting?

My clinic have an answer phone too which is frustrating but they do eventually call back so I hope they do call you back soon with advice.

Frazoz · 08/02/2015 13:55

Littlebear - have your clinic tested your hormone levels prior to transfer for the progestrone?

I've just had a FET cycle and was on two Crinone gels a day one in the morning and one at night.

I had a blood test 2 days before ET and they found I wasn't absorbing the gel and changed me to cyclogest 2 pessaries (400mg each) x 3 times a day.

Hopefully your clinic will be able to help you tomorrow but I imagine it must be tough for you not getting any answers and having to wait.

Hopefully it's not AF I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!! X

Original poster

LittleBear01 · 08/02/2015 16:26

No, the clinic didn't test my levels prior to transfer, something I'm feeling annoyed about now, especially as I started AF a bit early last time.

I feel a bit like a second class citizen as an NHS patient, any time I question anything they just blame NHS protocol.

I'll let you know what the clinic fob me off with say when I finally get to speak to them tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your comments

OP posts:

Shellster52 · 08/02/2015 20:43

LittleBear, I am preparing to embark on my 10th IVF! So I know all about how difficult this time is. While my reasons for failure were different to yours, I like you wanted answers to my problems. I didn't really find the clinic helpful in providing them and I found myself to be the only person who really cared. So I have spent lots of time researching and found my own solutions. I hope you find one too. As you say, it really does seem that your body didn't even give the embryos a chance. You deserve answers. I am here to chat if you need.

Helix1244 · 09/02/2015 15:33

After my early AF on cycle 2 i wanted gestone injections. But they said the lp of 12 days was fine (i was even more concerned as i have a short lp naturally)
They said 12 was fine and gave me cyclogest again. It did work that time, so who knows.
Hopefully they will have an explanation or plan for you.
One reason i thought it might have been an issue for me was they triggered when follicles were only 18mm.

AnnieHoo · 10/02/2015 12:15

What did the clinic say LittleBear? Hope you are ok x

Original poster

LittleBear01 · 10/02/2015 17:41

Hi everyone,

Again - thanks to you all for your support. It really does make a massive difference to know people care

Well, the blood test showed my progesterone level to be only 8.9nmol/l. Apparently it needs to be over 30 to support successful implantation. I still have to test on Friday, but going by the progesterone and the heavy rate at which I've been bleeding since Saturday, it seems certain that it'll be a BFN.

I saw the consultant today, and he admitted that the clinic had made a mistake in giving my buserelin as a trigger rather than hCG like normal. I'm annoyed because it felt wrong when they changed my treatment plan at the last minute from ovitrelle (hCG) to buserelin, and I questioned it, but the lead nurse promised me it was just as effective. I've since found studies that show buserelin is nowhere near as effective, leading to a pregnancy success rate of just 6%!

I also asked him why my progesterone level wasn't tested before ET as per other clinics (thanks for the info ladies!) and he just said it wasn't part of Bourn Hall's protocol. I'm disgusted!

The consultant has said he'll waive the usual Bourn Hall rule of 6 months between NHS cycles, and personally do my treatment plan himself. I've also made an official complaint to the clinic, HEFA and the Care Quality Commission. I'll let you know if it was worth it!

OP posts:

Naty1 · 10/02/2015 18:40

I got the impression they only use that if you are at risk of OHSS?
Will they refund that nhs cycle or is that one gone?
I cant understand why the success is so much lower. Is that due to egg quality affected or if affects the progesterone as you found?

Original poster

LittleBear01 · 10/02/2015 19:12

Hi Naty,

Well I was more at risk of OHSS last time (significantly more follicles/eggs) and used ovitrelle then, so I don't really understand my clinic's reasoning. I asked the consultant this question today, and he said he didn't know, and that he personally would not have prescribed me buserelin.

The study didn't state the reason why it's not as effective, so I don't know. Here's the link if you're interested: m.humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/5/1213.full

OP posts:

gcerron · 10/02/2015 22:25

Sorry to hear what happened with you Litttle I had ovitrelle as well but to be honest we don't have other alternative than believe that your doctor is doing the right thing but sometimes we have to investigate by ourselves and do the enquiry on time to our doctors and question why why why. I hope you can recover from this moment soon and think in your next options. Good luck

Verkey81 · 10/02/2015 23:08

littlebear I think we are at the same clinic and must have had et on the same day if your test day is Friday, anyway I also haven't had my Progesterone tested and wouldn't have thought of it if people hadn't mentioned it but now I feel they ought to test it otherwise how do they know the dose is enough?! I'll give that as feedback afterwards I think, sorry to hear things aren't going well :( well done for putting the complaints in, make them give you another round free

Original poster

LittleBear01 · 10/02/2015 23:37

Interesting verkey, are you at the main one or the satellite one? I'm at the satellite. My original test day was Monday 16th, but they've changed their minds now I'm bleeding! I had EC on fri 6th.

OP posts:

Frazoz · 11/02/2015 07:08

Littlebear - I'm really sorry to hear your news and can understand 100% why you'd be so annoyed and upset they just forget we are human beings and have feeling, we aren't just patients, numbers.

I think it is awful that this could have been prevented if they'd given you the right medication and well done for complaining these like this are sometimes too easily shrugged off and people are made to feel that they shouldn't complain.

With regards to testing progestrone I'm on another forum with about 15 other women and none of their clinics do blood tests mines the only one.

It makes you wonder why treatment varies so much between clinics and whether ladies are actually losing out because of it.

Sending you lots of hugs and I hope you can feel more positive about the next cycle

gcerron · 11/02/2015 07:18

my clinic didn't test my level of progesterone at the EC day either.

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