Bleeding at 3dp5dt - definitely bad news?

[LittleBear01]

I think I probably already know the answer to this but a little part of me is clinging on to hope...

I had my second IVF (1st was BFN) 5 day ET on Wednesday just gone (2 blastocysts put back), and this morning I woke up to cramps. When I went to the loo, there was a bit of brown blood on my panty liner. When I went again at 1pm, I wiped and there was red blood. Now it's brown again. There's not loads, but I'm feeling very sad.

Am I right to think the worst or is there any reason to stay hopeful?

Thanks in advance.

Sorry my clinic didn't test the level of progesterone at the day of ET I meant.

I would be interested to see what the actual clinics success rate with buruslin (sp) trigger is.
If its very low , as suggested by linked study then that is experimental treatment that you should, i hope have been told about and agreed that success rates would be lower.
In some ways its probably good it doesnt sound like you have frosties from this round as from the study it sounds like it cod affect not just pg on fresh cycle with that trigger but the chance of development of frozen too. You could waste a lot of time putting them back.
I wonder if you had been privately funded they might gave considered refunding.
My clinic also never tested prog, but i was on standard LP, and they seem to use the same treatment on most patients and also cyclogest.
I think a little more blood tests etc by clinic would help explain why some cycles fail. For example my thyroid levels vary, i tried to get it under 2.5 but by the time id had treatment it was up to 4, on failed cycle die to waiting over last xmas while they were closed. One blood test might have identified this.

LittleBear, is it rude to ask how old you are? It just seems that with two embryos put back that have made it all the way to blast, you would think the odds would be in your favour for at least one to implant, even if the trigger wasn't the optimal choice.

I am a poor responder and am lucky to have one embryo make it to blastocyst. So it's depressing for me to hear that if women like you are having two put back and still get a -ive, what hope do I have if I can manage to produce one. Does your gut instinct tell you what you feel went wrong? How early did you actually start bleeding?

I had intramuscular progesterone in both successful cycles (after previous BFN and early bleed despite good quality embryos). Good luck with your treatment and very sorry you are going through this.

I'm 32 Shell, I know - it's really disheartening, isn't it. I started bleeding just 3dp5dt, actually only about 60 hours after the transfer

Naty I do have 2 frostiness from this cycle, although the clinic advised me not to freeze due to low quality, I just didn't feel I could let them die. We're going for a fresh cycle again next time though.

Snooty, that's so good to hear, I hope that's the answer for me!

I think the failure is because of something hormonal because I started bleeding so early. Progesterone or oestrogen seem likely. The UK clinical director for my clinic is overseeing our next cycle as we made an official complaint about the last one, and I'm going to grill her about all the possible progesterone/ oestrogen medications. I'm also going to question her about autoimmune disorders and treatment for that eg clexane, intrallipid infusion. I want to know the clinic are going to try absolutely everything next time as it's our last NHS cycle.

I had a similar problem back in the day when they tested very little and they moved me onto injectible progesterone like Snootyfox. It bloody hurt and you either have to get someone to inject you daily or be prepared to stab yourself in the leg with a needle the size of a harpoon.

It was 10 years ago now but I can still recall it like it was yesterday. Sympathy to you.

Im glad youre doing fresh again though sorry about all the stress and hassle of it. The only advantage might have been adjusting tge prog and ostrogen support to get them right, but i guess it can affect things differently on fresh cycles anyway.

I would probably go with the gestone injections.
It might have been useful testing thyroid levels but you seem to have normal LP naturally. Looking vack you started 12dpo the first time so i would get tsh tested as ivf can make it rise.

Yes, it does make sense that the cause of the early bleeding would be the cause. It must be so frustrating because you had been through so much to produce 2 perfect embryos that made it all the way to blast and then they didn't even get a chance.

I hope you get an answer about why you bled so early so you can feel confident that this won't happen again next cycle. Are your cycles short naturally?

It's so nice to have met you. I have been on another IVF thread that I joined while undergoing IVF in December. But my IVF failed and now there are several ladies all reporting BFP's from their IVF and posting pics of their positive sticks. I am happy for them, but for me the thread is becoming more depressing than supportive.

It's a different experience for ladies like you and me doing repeated IVF, as we have the real fear of repeated failure which these ladies know nothing of getting BFP's on their first IVF.

When do you see the consultant for follow up and to arrange your next IVF? I am on day 8 of my current cycle and starting IVF number 10 next cycle. I am in Australia so don't have NHS but this is the last cycle I can afford (still in debt from previous IVF) so I feel real pressure for everything to go perfect.

Also, just thinking, I assume you are quite positive that this was your period and not an implantation bleed, or have you had any official test? I don't want to be one of those annoying people to give you false hope but it just seems that your bleeding at 3dp5dt is right when the embryo should be busy burrowing in.

LittleBear, how are you? I think we are at the same clinic (Bourn Hall, mine is in Essex?). I had a 5day blastocyst transfer of 2 top grade embryos on the 7th and started bleeding 5 days later. Have been bleeding v heavily since then and clinic just said 'keep going and test on Saturday as you're supposed to'. They didn't suggest any blood tests etc. I swapped from crinone to injectable Gestone on the day of my ET (I requested it, I'll always wonder now if I should have stuck with the crinone ). From memory I had Ovitrelle as my trigger shot.

littlebear I'm at the main one, following and keeping everything crossed for you x

Sorry to hear that your treatment was unsuccessful LittleBear, I hope the next one all goes according to plan and your BFP appears very soon!

I had the buserelin trigger injection, it's the only one my hospital offer as far as I know, and I don't think they measured my progesterone level either. You're entirely right to make them accountable for what they're doing - I referred my previous hospital to the PHSO because they were incredibly poor in responding to patient complaints, claiming they were "too busy" - so what is a Complaints dept there for, then?!

Either way, I hope you get some answers soon, and that your clinic are more helpful next time round