Anyone starting IVF soon? Join me (2)

[purplemeggie]

I see we've filled up the thread and thought I'd better start another one. How's everyone doing?

Yes blue, CoQ10 does seem to have helped you as you started it then had record eggs last cycle. But I've been taking it for ages and my day 2 AFC has gone up and down so that doesn't seem to be improving my AFC. I read that a cyst lowers your day 2 AFC, and I had a cyst this cycle.

Still hoping it is helping quality for when I ever get to EC. I didn't realise your DH has a 3yo - what an impressive feat to get that cake organised in the little time you had.

purple, your system sounds difficult over there. I could easily go to my Dr and ask for a blood test here. But I'm glad you've organised it. What day are you getting that done? I was reading a study on increased success rates for women taking estrogen after EC so very interesting to hear that your very thorough sounding clinic has prescribed it for you. When did you start it and what dose do you take? Just did a quick google and there are loads of stories about women who get sick during the 2ww. Just read that progesterone actually lowers your immune system - so here's hoping you are suffering of behalf of allowing your embryos to implant.

hope hubby is feeling better waiting. Must be a relief knowing you have sperm frozen, but very distressing watching him go through this at the same time. It never rains, it hails.

AFM, I now have to see my Dr to arrange another IVF. I am really frustrated the clinic doesn't do a day 2 scan as standard. If I had of seen not many follicles then and a cyst, I could simply have postponed for one cycle. Now I have pumped all these drugs in my body for nothing, I have lost my deposit and I have been through the emotional ringer and will always be left wondering if one of these 3 eggs I did grow would have been the one. Going to speak to my Dr about this at my next appointment.

Hi Shellster my DH doesn't have a 3 yo......I got a cake printed with a picture of HIM when he was 3 years old! . Unfortunately we are both utterly childless.

Hopefully your doctor will listen to you about the day 2 scan. Perhaps if you offer to pay for it he'll consider it? I can't see why he would object. Anyway, good luck.

Purple glad you were able to sort out the blood test. Going on holiday the same day is actually quite good I think - whatever the outcome of the test you'll be in the sun with a fruity cocktail. A lot better than having to spend the day in the office.

waiting bad luck about your husband. Hopefully he'll be on the mend soon.

Oh, sorry I misread blue. Not thinking (or reading!) straight today after this cancellation disappointment. Yeah, I can't see why my Dr would object about the day 2 scan either. But I asked for it on 1st IVF with this clinic and she said they don't do that. I asked again on my 4th IVF with this clinic after my 1st, 2nd and 3rd IVF showed 5 follicles, then 16, then 19 and I said how it varies so much from month to month but she brushed it off and said 'it seems to have been good the last 2 cycles'. So I don't know that she will agree this cycle. Will have to think of a way to word it properly. Perhaps I will break down and cry after the anguish this has put me through - then surely she couldn't disagree! Perhaps if she disagrees, I can offer to pay. But I feel like I am forking out $7,000 for each cycle and they have the machine right there so this should darn well be included! She is going to call me next week when she is back from holidays so it will be nice to have that worry sorted and I can pick myself up from this disaster and slowly count down 2 cycles before I try again.

What's happening in your corner blue. You seem to have picked yourself up amazingly after this last IVF failure. No long rants like me! Do you have any set plans in place for your frosty or just taking time out for now?

Waiting - hope Mr Waiting is on the mend - what a worry. I imagine that must have been excrutiatingly painful .

Thanks for that, Shellster - I hadn't been able to face googling illness in 2ww, in case it was awful...on the basis that there was nothing I could do, so good to hear that it might be a good sign. Just having to force myself to eat, as really nothing is appealing. I feel shocking! Test day is Tuesday 31st.

Blue - I was all in favour of jetting off on holiday that day - either to celebrate or to take my mind off things. Originally, we were planning a skiing holiday, but due to the warm weather/lateness in the season, we decided to go for some sunshine instead. We're going with friends, and they found a great all-inclusive deal to Tunisia. We were all really looking forward to it, until there was a big terrorist attack in Tunis on Wednesday....and now we're all a bit apprehensive! BIL (who used to work in providing security reports for companies sending employees to some very dangerous parts of the world) tells me that it's the safest time to go, as they'll all be on their toes...

Dh is slightly better but not as much as I'd have hoped. We are going to see how he isin morning and go to ooh if not better. Its such a worry.

I can only imagine how worrying that is waiting. It sounds extremely painful.

You are smart purple in not googling and worrying yourself. I did it for you - there are no real studies on it but just lots of women like you in the 2ww and feeling really sick and asking of other peoples outcomes in same situation. Lots of replies to say that women did get sick and did go on to get their BFP. Wow, the 31st seems a long way away considering you had a day 5 transfer. I guess they want to be certain. Your trip sounds very interesting. Guess it makes sense that it's the safest time to go, but I can imagine the apprehension!

Just wanted to wish you a safe journey, Blue.

Waiting - hope Mr Waiting is feeling better this morning.

Shellster - sending a hug x

Thanks all...heading off to Moscow tomorrow morning now. All my frozen cycle drugs have arrived and I'll be ready to start downregging on 5th April I think (day 21). This will be our last shot with my own eggs I think, we've come to the decision to move on to donor eggs after this. It's quite liberating in a way - it feels good to have a 'different' plan that will hopefully result in a different outcome.

I still haven't decided what to do about the NK cells testing. I need to hurry up and make a decision before I start this frozen cycle. Any advice? I'm loath to stump up the £££ for something that has no medical evidence supporting it, but on the other hand I'm curious. I dunno.

Purple hope you are feeling better. I was sick during one of my cycles but as Shellster says, it's nothing to worry about. In fact I had a cold at ET and the doctor laughed and said it's normal, women get stressed then get sick. RALG! RALG.... says I, the psychotic obsessive.

Hello lovely. I decided not to bother with NKC testing - again, my consultant didn't believe there was sufficient evidence that they were a problem - he told me about a debate he attended a couple of years ago on whether or not it was worth testing with 40 fertility consultants. Apparently, after hearing all the evidence, the vote was 39 against testing, with the only one who voted in favour being the consultant who proposed the vote in the first place.

However, I may have something else to throw into the mix. I don't know if you remember me mentioning that when I went to Prague the first time, they recommended testing me for a genetic mutation called MTHFR? Well, it turned out that I tested positive for it.

The clinic said it was relevant to how the body metabolised folic acid and that people with the mutation needed metafolin, rather than synthetic folic acid. They said that in some people (and I'm guessing this is the pot I fall into) it only becomes apparent after a successful pregnancy, because you can have reserves of folate from (I think this is what they were saying) when you were born.

I've done a bit more reading to understand the implications of this, and it turns out that it can cause miscarriage, chemical pregnancy and infertility. It seems that you can carry one or two copies of the gene and the severity of the problem depends on this. I had never heard of the mutation or the test for it until we went to Prague. Have you been tested for this, as it occurs to me that the symptoms match yours too....

Hi Purple thanks for the info. I remember you mentioning MTHFR (infertility's rudest sounding acronym). I need to check if I've been tested for that...I know we've done karotyping and a few other things. Definitely worth investigating, I will do some research. If I haven't been tested I'll ask my doctor for a referral. It sounds 'real' unlike NK testing which is definitely more 'woo' than real.

Your story about the 40 fertility experts is very interesting. Normally I'm a completely rational, sensible person but IVF has affected my brain. Even though all the experts I know (well...1 real expert in person, 1 Robert Winston and 1 DH) are telling me that NK cell testing is a waste of time, it's really niggling me. Maybe I'll do the MTHFR first and see how that goes. I want to make sure that I've addressed every potential pitfall before we transfer this frostie (and/or spend $$$$ on donor eggs).

How are you feeling? Have you started irrationally 'symptom' spotting yet?

Shellster, how are things with you? x

purple thanks for the MTHFR information. Solgar do a range of Metafolin supplements - it might be worth adding to my list, as it's not expensive. Hope the waiting isn't driving you crazy yet.

Waiting I hope your chap is on the mend now? Will his problems delay things happening there?

Shellster hope you are doing ok.

Blue I think it's perfectly valid to address your own concerns going through this process. If you feel happier persuing the NK testing then I would do it. You want to feel sure you have done all you can when so much is at stake.

Hope everyone else is doing ok. Day five of stims here, we get a peek on Friday to see what's going on. I've had some lingering headaches over the weekend but that seems to have stopped now thank goodness.

Sunrise I had bad headaches in one of my cycles. Good to hear yours have settled down but do make sure you keep your liquid intake up. My clinic insisted on 2 litres of water and a litre of milk power day during stims.

Hope everybody is well.

I had another reflexology appt today which was very relaxing. If my results are ok on thurs I'm going to start having reflexology x2 each week leading up to stimms. If tsh still too high I will just continue with my weekly appt.
I feel so in limbo. Can't wait for blood test to see if I can start next month.

Dh is still not 100% his antibiotics have helped a bit but something's not right and he will be seeing gp again this week. Fingers crossed all is ok.

I've read a lot about protein during stimms as well. Does it really help? Is it for egg quality or to avoid ohss or both?

blue, I have never looked into NKC as my Dr offered to test my uterine lining from my 'scratch' remains and all was normal. In the course of my IVF obsessive researching, I have read about women that are treated with intralipid infusions and IVIg for repeated implantation failure. Here is a summary of both which might be adding more options and confusion for you rather than answers, but I do find it interesting that one study showed success of 9% for placebo versus 40% for IVIg.

Well I told myself I would soldier on with my exercise and healthy eating to give my next last IVF the best chance, but I have found myself binging on ice cream, chips and the like. Then I just feel guilty because I am ruining my next IVF. But I can't find motivation when all I've got for my effort is failure after failure. Have to find some new motivation from somewhere.

Will check in Friday to see how you got on with your scan Second.

Can't believe your OTD is still a week away Purple. Feels like a long time to me - must feel even longer to you. How are you coping?

Waiting, I too ready about protein and IVF. Have been doing it dutifully but I have had 11 attempts at IVF with no success so I feel in no position to offer advice on IVF success strategies!

Fingers crossed for Friday, Sunrise.
Waiting - it's about egg quality rather than OHSS. My UK consultant put me on a low-carb, high protein diet for 3 months before I startd IVF, because he said in some cases in can be enough to improve egg quality sufficiently to result in natural conception. Obv not, in my case, but worth a try! For all that my eggs were old and knackered, they behaved quite well - they all fertilised, most made it to day 5 and the one frosty we had survived the freeze-thaw process. I don't know if it had anything to do with the high protein diet, but I'm sure it helped.
Hang in there, Shellster - you're allowed to be a little bit kind to yourself in amongst all the hard work. You're normally pretty good with your diet, so I'm sure the odd ice-cream won't undo all the good work x

I've just been to see my GP to update him on my treatment in CZ and to make sure that I'm going to be able to source the drugs I need if I get my BFP. Of course, nothing is that simple....I need an obstetrician to oversee my treatment and because I don't have an obstetrician in the UK, I'm going to have to go back to the consultant who looked after me for my UK IVF and see if he will help. He's lovely and I'm sure he will if he can, but still! And it seems that even if I am pregnant and the drugs will be for maintaining an existing pregnancy, rather than for fertility treatment, I'm likely to have to fund them myself. I don't have a massive problem with that - it is a drop in the ocean compared with the thousands that we've spent on fertility treatment, but it doesn't seem entirely ethical to me...

And yes - test day seems a long way off, doesn't it, Shellster. I've just checked back with my previous cycles and it's about 4 days later than I have tested with previous day 5 transfers, so I'm quite likely to crumble and POAS a bit early. Feeling good so far.

Hi ladies

Thanks for the info on ivig and intralipids Shellster. I've read similar research and some clinics also use 20mg steroids to treat high levels of NK cells. I have loads of steroids at home....so I'm thinking about upping my dose to 20mg (from 10mg) during my next cycle. Perhaps that will be enough to allay my fears about NK cells without having to go through the rigmarole of finding a consultant/testing/treating. Probably a bit naughty but I don't think 2 weeks of 20mg prednisolone will do me any harm. Anyway I'm seeing my consultant on Thursday morning so I'll see what he says about all this NK stuff (probably nothing, he thinks it's a load of boof).

Shellster please do not beat yourself up over ice cream and crisps. You are so careful with your diet that I really don't think it will make any difference at all. In fact, treating yourself is probably a good thing - good for your mental health. There are a lot worse things you could be doing - smoking crack - that would be a lot worse

Purple I don't blame you for feeling a bit annoyed about having to go back to your old consultant. I guess you might have to pay for the drugs privately, but surely the NHS will take care of your pregnancy? Weird. I hadn't thought it would be an issue. When are you going to do your first HPT? I'm nervous for you!!

Good luck on Friday sunrise, hopefully you'll have a nice calm womb.

Lovely UK Consultant (and his lovely secretary) have come to the rescue. I'm going to get a prescription scanned over from CZ and she thinks he'll be happy to prescribe on that basis. If not, someone from Fertility Friends has recommended an online pharmacy that will supply meds based on a Czech prescription, so I should be fine one way or the other.

Don't know re testing. When I had my last day 5 transfer, I was told to test after 12 days, which would be Saturday. How long post-transfer did you test? x

Somebody shoot me. In the absence of any actual symptoms to spot (Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing AFy, nothing pregnancy-y. Just feel completely normal!) - I have just retraced my steps through our previous IVF thread, to see when I started spotting in each cycle, and work out whether I'm further along now than I was then. Zen purple has left the building!

The madness descends!! We've all been there Purple. Whatever you do, don't start Googling 2dp5dt, 3dp5dt, 4dp5dt etc. Maybe you've started that already. It's extremely addictive and it will drive you potty.

I never test early so I'm a bad person to benchmark against. I waited until 10dp5dt in my last cycle - I'm too much of a basket case to test early, I wouldn't be able to trust the result. I'd like you to test early for purely vicarious reasons of course

That's the thing though, Blue - I will be 12dp5dt on Saturday, and I've been told to test on Monday....I don't think I'm planning to test early, I think I've been told to test REALLY late! I am sure I won't hold out beyond Saturday. When I do the first test really depends on when they arrive....I've ordered some 10miu ones from Babymad.

Interesting your UK consultant said high protein diet even assists with natural conception purple. My hubby has 100% abnormal sperm so won't help in our case. He came home from work yesterday in such a bad mood which is not uncommon. I am convinced his shitty attitude towards work and constant poor me attitude is affecting his hormones and responsible for his crap sperm. I don't understand how your medical system works. Can't believe it's so difficult to get such an important script filled, but glad you've got it sorted. Now that worry is sorted, you have more time to obsess over when to POAS! Saturday does seem like a long enough time frame to get an accurate result. In a textbook 28 day cycle where we ovulate day 14, we would test 1 day after missed period which is only 15 days. Saturday will be 17 days. But of course, the positive shows up different days for everyone and if it's negative, you'll be stressing and testing til Monday. I guess this isn't helped by the fact that you have no idea when your period will show up because of all the down regging.

blue, I guess knowing prednisolone is the treatment for high NK cells would put your mind at ease. I just worry for you - is there any research that suggests there is some harm in taking it if you don't actually need it? I just think of the lady at my clinic who got a BFP first round but miscarried at 10 weeks due to embryo genetic abnormality, then was tested and told her NK cells were a bit high so has been on prednisolone for her next 6 transfers all of which resulted in BFN. Just can't help but think that the higher NK cells really didn't do any harm with her first BFP - perhaps because as purples article showed, the progesterone makes sure they are low in luteal phase, and that perhaps the prednisolone has interfered with implantation for her next 6 transfers since it is the only change. Mmm... smoking crack... might help numb the pain... putting ideas in my head!

Yes, Shellster - at the outset, my consultant tested my insulin resistance and said that although I wasn't diabetic, I was pre-diabetic and unless I made some changes, I would end up diabetic. My dad is diabetic and my sister almost certainly is, but she doesn't want to be tested because they would make her change her eating habits, so there's a definite family risk. My doctor reminded me that diabetes is about how you process carbs, not just sugar, and that because non-animal proteins such as beans and nuts have a higher carb-loading than animal proteins, we non-meat eaters have more of a tendency that way. We waited 3 months after my hycosy to see if sorting out the adhesions would resolve our fertility problems (the fact that I was already 40 by this point obv didn't help!) and he recommended starting the high protein low carb at that stage. But as you say, not going to make a difference to sperm quality!

sooooo....14 dpo, would be today....when to POAS, when to POAS?

Blue, I've just realised that in my last UK cycle, when we decided to throw everything at it - and my doctor said "don't believe in NKCs, no point in spending the money testing, but if you want you can have the meds for it anyway," I was on 20mg of prednisolone. (This time, I'm on 2mg, which is why 20mg sounded horribly high to me...)

Thanks for the input on prednisolone. Maybe I do need to be a bit careful. I'm seeing the consultant tomorrow morning so I'll ask for his opinion. There seems to be wildly different recommendations for dosages online, so I'm not sure what to do really. I've been on 10mg for the last couple of cycles.

Purple sounds like you could test tomorrow, if you wanted to? I'm a nervous nelly so I'd probably wait until Saturday. If you're using a super sensitive test then I guess it should be able to pick up HCG from tomorrow. Exciting! I have my fingers crossed for you.

Shellster I'm sorry about your husband. It's tough - there's really nothing you can do to change the mind and actions of other people, even your DH. I guess you just need to focus on yourself and how you feel instead of letting him get to you. I just ordered this book called Search Inside Yourself, a couple of people have recommended it to me. The author takes a scientific approach to examining the evidence around meditation and positive thinking. Sounds right up my alley! I'll let you know what it's like, I think we could all do with a dose of scientifically endorsed positive thinking.

Oooh, that books sounds as if it should be recommended reading for this thread, "Blue"!
Yup. Not sure what I'm going to do about testing. I want to wait til Saturday really....hang onto the hope and all that....but my tests arrived in the post today, so let's see how the resolve works out!
Still no spotting though

That does seem a long wait till testing purple i wouldn't be able to wait that long!!

I have my blood test in the morning and hopefully will get good news on Friday then I can get myself ready for starting stimms in a couple of weeks !