Anyone starting IVF soon? Join me (2)

[purplemeggie]

I see we've filled up the thread and thought I'd better start another one. How's everyone doing?

WOW WOW WOW blue!!! That is absolutely amazing to have 6 out of 7 embryos make it to day 5. I don't know how many other stories you've followed on here but most women start with 6-10 and are lucky to end up with 1-2. 6 out of 7 really is extraordinary. I think the fact that you and your husband eat very healthy must really help. Sadly, my husband continues to eat junk day in day out so I am not expecting the same results.

I have tinges of blood in my cervix today. Hoping my period arrives tomorrow so that day 14, 15 and 16 are Thu, Fri & Sat and I won't have to worry about the perfect day for my eggs to be collected being a Sunday when the clinic is closed.

Waiting, I've never done reflexology but I do acupuncture. I have seen improvement in my embryo quality over each of my IVF's, but not sure if that is due to the acupuncture or the supplements and diet change. Either way, I am seeing improvement and don't want to stop anything before my next IVF so I continue on with acupuncture. I saw an IVF natural therapist yesterday and she advised the best days for acupuncture during IVF cycle for follicle growth is day 3 6 and 9.

I had acupuncture during all my cycles last year - I haven't bothered this time, but it didn't feel so important with the DE, because someone else is doing most of the hard work for me. I found it helpful - although obviously I didn't conceive.

I haven't used reflexology during my fertility treatment (actually not through want of trying...our local practice was so busy I couldn't get an appointment!) - but I did do it all through my pregnancy with DS and it was amazing. It is certainly something I'd be tempted to try.

Thanks all - it's SO nice to have you ladies cheering me on. I love this forum (self help group, moaning circle, expert panel - whatever we should call ourselves).

Still waiting for the call to see if any of the remaining embryos are suitable for freezing. She said she'd call me this morning and it's now 12:10, so obviously I've been staring at the phone for the last 5 hours 10 minutes.

Shellster I hope your period arrives today. Do some vigorous exercise! Works for me...usually seems to get things flowing down there. Purple, what's happening with you? I've forgotten when you're supposed to be going to CZ.

Regarding acupuncture, I tried it once during my last cycle but I didn't like it. I found it really claustrophobic and not at all relaxing (he stuck quite a few needles between and around my eyes). I knocked that on the head quite quickly!

I got one frostie! . I'm pleased. I've never had a frostie before so this is great news. I credit everything so far to A. complete, random luck and B. my beloved daily 600mg CoQ10. Still got an enormous way to go but it's great to have one in the freezer (not least because it will save us some ££££ if we need to try again).

- I've just rushed home to see if there was an update from you, Blue and that's just fantastic. Hoping you won't need it, because those CQ10-fueled hatching blastocysts sound mighty, but always nice to have some insurance.

Shellster - hope AF turns up soon....x

I got an update today about our cycle. Apparently the donor is progressing well they now thing that EC will be next Weds and then planning ET for the Monday. I have my ultrasound to check lining tomorrow so they might tweak the schedule again after that, but it's nice to have some info. They didn't tell me how many follicles she's brewing and when I asked they just said "progressing well" - is there a nose-wrinkling emoticon?

Apparently, after EC, we will get a password to a secure website, where we can watch embryocam. Nooooooo! A whole new way to obsess! Does anybody know the story of Dora's Eggs? Dora the Hen has laid her first clutch of eggs and is very proud of them, so she walks round the farmyard to tell all her friends, but everyone is so busy playing with their babies that they don't come and look. ("My eggs are nice, but not as nice as Penny Pig's wriggly piglets/ Suzy Sheep's playful lambs etc) - it's all okay in the end though, because of course they hatch into lovely fluffy chicks. I was just imagining myself on embryo-watch - "My morulae are nice, but not as nice as Blue's hatching blastocysts..."

Brilliant blue so pleased for you!

What does the cq10 do ? I have not heard of that.

Also, I have been reading today about so etching called embryo glue- does anybody have experience with it? Is it worth the extra cost?

So etching-something ? Sorry!

CQ10 is to help with egg quality - Blue is the expert on this (but we've all jumped onto the bandwagon....even me, and I'm not even growing my own eggs ) - I'm taking it because I liked the sound of the side-effects of faster metabolism and more energy!

Different clinics seem to have different opinions on embryo glue. Mine in the UK didn't use it and I don't think our clinic in CZ does, either.

Hi waiting here's a thread I asked a couple of weeks ago
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/2300506-Embryo-glue-sounds-like-a-good-idea
I think I'm going to go for it, I mean, what's a hundred pounds when you're spending on an IVF cycle .

Blue that's brilliant news, fingers crossed for you.

I'm all booked in for my first cycle - start sniffing on 15th. Quite nervous really but pleased to be doing something proactive...

Hi Cat and welcome (I'm assuming you're the owner of a black-and-white cat....me too ). Good luck for your first cycle.

We took that view with the scratch - our consultant said that the evidence was inconclusive - some studies found it improved success rates others found it didn't, but no studies found it made it worse, so we decided to go for it on the basis that it might help. Our clinic didn't offer glue, but we might well have gone for that if it did....in practice we'd probably have had all the optional extras and ended up adding ££££ to our bill!

One thing we did decide to pay for on our last cycle was embryogen culture medium, which contains growth hormones and something that helps the embryo to communicate with the uterus. It's recommended for women who have had multiple miscarriages or failed cycles. They talked us out of using it in earlier cycles (even though I'd had a miscarriage and a couple of chemical pregnancies), because they said that they like to try the least interventions to start with on the basis that it's best to interfere as little as possible and add interventions if they need to to boost success.

....embryocam.....seriously!!? What is that? Will you be looking at a live feed of the embryos growing in the test tube? That would be amazing! I'm very impressed, thought I'd heard just about everything in IVF world but this is something new. Very cool indeed.

I know why they aren't telling you the donor's follicle number...because they don't want you to start obsessing pre-embryo cam! How does it work with the scan? Do you have to go to a clinic here and then they email the results to the CZ clinic or something?

Waiting this is co-enzyme Q10. I've been on 600mg a day for the last 3-4 months. I don't really know if it has made any difference to my results this cycle do feel great on it - I have loads of extra energy. Anyway my doc has told me to cut down to every other day from now on....he's denying me my fix! Joking aside, it is a pretty massive dose and nobody really knows if it's ok during pregnancy (fingers crossed) so I am going to stop taking it soon.

I was actually expecting 3-4 to make it to freeze blue since they had made it so far as day five. But then your next sentence was "I'm pleased" and I immediately felt better if you are happy with that. It has got me thinking though - perhaps for my last upcoming IVF cycle, if I am in your situation for example, I could ask for 2 of the 4 embryos to be transferred, rather than the two best which can definitely be frozen, just to give as many embryos as possible a chance. Do you know what stage the other 4 embryos were at yesterday blue and what determines today if they are good enough to freeze or not? Sorry, probably stressing you out with all my detailed questions. This is me. I need the details! I can't help myself! Just curious to know so I can make a decision if I am in similar situation in my own cycle.

Speaking of details, definitely need a nose wrinkle emoticon for 'progressing well' purple. Then they make up for details by giving you embryocam! I would go to sleep with that screen beside me if I were given that option.

waiting, our clinic does not offer embryo glue so it's not something I've looked into and can't advise on. I too take CoQ10 and while I can't say I've found the same experience of extra energy, I have definitely seen improvement in my embryo quality over my cycles, although I am doing lots of things so can't say I can attribute it directly to this. It's supposed to give our cells energy. So in the case of IVF, it gives our egg cells extra energy for all that dividing they have to do.

cat, is sniffing on 15th for down-regging? So you'll start stims a few weeks after this? Yes, it does feel nice to have a date booked in and something pro-active to look forward to doesn't it. Although now that you are counting down, the next week is going to go glacially slow!

Okay, no period today but a bit more blood in the cervix. Period definitely needs to come tomorrow so CD15 is a Saturday for EC and not Sunday when clinic is closed. Thanks for the practical advise blue. Finish work in 10 mins then doing some exercise!

Blue - really? Is it cool, or just something else for my feverish head to fixate on!!! I'm quite amused by the idea and yes, I'm sure I'll log on...I won't be able to help myself, will I?

Shellster - I asked about that strategy too, and my consultant pointed out that because there is a (slightly) lower chance of success with a FET, you would be compromising the chances of the very best quality embryos in favour of quantity to transfer.

But how about this as an alternative strategy: 4 embryos, 1,2,3 and 4 in terms of quality. How about having 1 and 4 transferred, and seeing if you could freeze 2 and 3? I think we discussed a study at some point (or at least, I've DEFINITELY seen one as part of this year-long obsession with all papers IVF) which said that success rates with double transfers was significantly higher than with single transfers, even if one of the embryos was of lesser quality. I have assumed that it's just because there is more of the "I'm here" hormone going on, so the body is more likely to recognise and protect a pregnancy.

Hi shellster yes it's good to be booked in, but as the clinic only booked me in a week after my period and I have no drugs ordered yet, I'm in no hurry to get to the 15th and start my down drugs.

Does everyone buy their own drugs or do you just use the clinic's drug company?

purple I'm interested in your research about double transfers having a higher success rate than singles. Where did you read that?

Ahhh - Cat - I've been on the treadmill for a year and I can no longer remember what I've read. I am pretty sure we discussed it on here, or in its predecessor thread though - in fact I think one of the other ladies found the research. I'll have a dig back and see if I can find it for you.

I bought my own drugs for two of my three cycles (2xfresh, 1xFET) - the time I didn't was because I was on Gonal-F and it was so much cheaper at the clinic that it cancelled out the savings I would have made with the other drugs. Get a price list and then check with your local ASDA - I phoned the ASDA pharmacy and checked the price of each drug. In my case, I saved around £160.

Shellster on day 5 (ET day) I had the 2 best blastos transferred and I was told the remaining 4 were 'good looking blastocysts'. By late afternoon on day 6 there was only 1 that looked good enough for freezing...apparently it looked exactly how it should look for a day 6 embryo and was 'top quality'. They are rather vague at my clinic (they don't do grading) but they do have strict criteria for freezing, so the other 3 were rejected. I guess in retrospect I could have thought about doing a 1 and 4 transfer (as Purple suggests) but as I've never been in this situation before I just went on their advice. I'm really pleased with the frostie because I've never had one before, so i don't feel disappointed about the rest. I just feel pleased that I've got back-up if this cycle doesn't work out, and I'll save some $$$ on stims and EC.

Purple tell me more about this embryocam. What is it exactly? I wonder how it works, sounds bonkers (but good at the same time).

Ha ha! I'm not entirely sure. As I understand it, once the eggs have been collected, they will fertilise them (it's going to be PICSI, which is also a new one on me - it's like ICSI, but instead of just picking up a sperm that looks wriggly, they put them into a petri dish with micro dots of the substance that the eggs are surrounded in (apparently it's the same stuff as we have to lubricate our joints. Dr Google's come into his own this week). They they choose the sperm that have adhered to the egg-coating-goo, on the basis that if they adhered to it well, then they're more likely to go for the actual thing.) Then we get a password, where we can log in and view our embryos online. You're right, it does sound bonkers. I'm not quite sure what to do with it, in my head. I kind of take the view that I won't know what I'm looking at, so why bother, but I know that curiousity will get the better of me and I'll want to make friends with my little chicks.

It reminds me of when we were researching overseas clinics and the clinic that we looked at in Spain had discovered that fertilisation rates were improved if you played music to the eggs. (Who the HELL came up with that as a PhD subject?!) I kept thinking "Ooh, I wonder if I could request Elgar?"....this thing does do crazy stuff to our heads, doesn't it?

So, I had my scan today and my lining's at 9.2 already, which is great, so egg collection has been confirmed for next Weds, and transfer is planned for Monday 16th. We've decided to go out to Prague on Thursday or Friday next week and stay until the Tuesday, just to relax and chill a bit with all this. We're taking ds with us...he will love it.

Can anyone else remember the discussion about transferring more than one embryo improving success rates? I've just been back through this thread and the previous one (do you realise, Blue and Shellster - we've been holding each other's hands over this for over a year now ) and I can't find anything. I'm sure I'm not dreaming...

I do remember reading something about a study showing that transferring more than one increasing success. Like you purple, I've been at this so long and can't remember if I read it online or discussed it here. I'm stressing myself enough coming up with things I should google or research to try to make my last IVF perfect. So I have banned myself now. But I sure you could google double versus single transfer cat and a myriad of studies would pop up. It just seems to make sense. A certain percentage of embryos are genetically abnormal, so the more you transfer, the higher the chance of one being normal and implanting.

You sound like you are keeping your head in the right place blue, just staying relaxed and trusting in the clinic. I really regret waffling on about getting the other embryos transfer to have more frosties if I were in that situation, and didn't mean to cause you any more stress blue. You've been through enough!

Purple, you/your clinic are right. You probably would be trading quality for quantity. I guess I am just thinking this way because it is my last IVF and it would feel so nice to have a plan B in the freezer rather than feeling stressed that this IVF needs to work.

My period did arrive today but it is different to normal. I usually wake up to the bright red flow of my period blood so I have no doubt what is day one. Today I woke up to nothing, but late morning had dried browny blood when I went to the toilet. And a bit more of the same this afternoon. My period is usually very light anyway so perhaps this is day one, but just different due to the progesterone or the scratch last cycle? I can't talk to my clinic on the weekend so I guess I'll just see what tomorrow morning brings and then make a decision if tomorrow is day 2 and time to start injecting.

If I'm just spotting, I don't count it. And I don't count if it starts later in the day either. Is it already in the window that you don't want it, Shellster?

Sounds like all systems go for you purple, that's so exciting! Prague is lovely. I know you'll probably be stressed out about the ET but it's a really nice place to spend the weekend. Your clinic sounds so modern and reassuring too. So with PICSI do they use the actual sperm that stick to the goo and put them with your egg? Very clever. You get your own sperm A Team.

Shellster my clinic always says 'full flow' for day 1. I never have full flow on day 1 though so I'm always a bit doubtful about it. What works best for you? I know you want to avoid the clinic being closed. Why is this stuff never simple?!! IVF is so frigging annoying in so many different ways. You need the patience of a saint to do this stuff ... I feel like going on a screaming rampage most days.

Please don't feel guilty about your frostie comment, I wasn't insulted! I guess I could have tried to game it a bit better but my clinic is very much of the opinion that they know best. It's hard to debate the issue with feet in stirrups!

Anyway, let's see what happens. I wish I had embryo cam in my womb! I feel pretty normal today, no symptoms apart from vivid dreams and raging thirst (progesterone related I'm sure). Hopefully my little embryos are getting ready to settle in down there today.

My clinic were very very insistent we can diagnose day 1. We were told that if full flow before 12 then that's day 1. If its full flow after 12 then the next day is day 1.

I've got reflexology booked for Monday so looking forward to that and today I have started trying to eat very healthily, lots of protein, full fat dairy, loads of veg and salad,more nuts and seeds etc! Not sure if it will make much difference but I feel like after all the weeks of eating too much cake (had to get bmi up and it was only thing that worked alongside Complan shakes!) that I need to really start looking after myself and trying to make the most of waiting a few more weeks due to tsh levels

Just a quick note to wish everyone good luck with their IVF journey. I start my first cycle next month and will be popping in here regularly to follow the highs and lows that go hand in hand with IVF. I'm currently trying to source the meds before early April to cut costs. Really surprised to learn that I don't start my meds until day 23 of cycle, I presume this is the same for most. I didn't realise there would be so much injecting involved!

Welcome choc I'm at the same stage as you working out where I'll get my meds from.

I've got a question for you informed pros - I've forgotten when it is you're not allowed to have unprotected sex - is it before you start down regging or before egg collection?

My clinic are not filling me with confidence - when they rang to book me in the nurse had worked out all the weeks wrong, and today I received all the documentation and on our bill they've charged us for ICSI even though we didn't even discuss it at the consultation and haven't included theEmbryoglue that we did want. Not feeling terribly confident about their ability to pick the right egg collection day or the right embryo now!

Shellster I never count day one if its just spotting and my clinic said that was right.

Fingers crossed for you blue, hoping they get stickily stuck.

Yup, Waiting - my method of calculating day 1 is the same, I just didn't express it so eloquently!

Hello Choc - thanks for your good wishes and welcome. Sounds like you're on a long protocol - down reg to close down your system and then stims to kick start it again. It does seem a long time when you're looking at your meds schedule, but you'll be amazed how quickly it all comes around. Try Asda for your meds - I found them to be quite a bit cheaper.

Cat I was told not to have unprotected sex from the period in which I was starting to down-reg - because I was having a scratch and they want to know that they're not dislodging a pregnancy at that stage. Also, my clinic charged me for ICSI and then refunded the difference between IVF and ICSI - in our case they didn't decide which to do until the day. It may be just that.

Hi Blackandwhitecat3, it's great to know someone is at the same stage as I am. I think there's lots of experience on this board re: sourcing drugs and I really hope you find somewhere cheaper than your clinic.

Thanks purplemeggie, I'm just getting my head around all the terminology and it helps to hear if from others in the same boat. Yip, that's the one, long protocol...sounds like an episode of Cagney and Lacey. Great advice about Asda for meds, but my clinic is being arsy and are claiming they don't accept meds from there. Just posted another thread about it.

Cat3, if it's any consolation, my clinic's absolutely rubbish with admin and returning telephone calls etc etc, but as yet no probs with the nurses, who seem a nice bunch. I did have a really bad consultation with an NHS consultant about 3 wks ago who wouldn't answer any of my basic questions. His attitude was one of you don't qualify for NHS funding so you'll have to put the exact same questions to Mr X and pay him...Really crazy, I initially attended the hospital privately (first consultation) only to be told that all tests would be done on the NHS (great I thought, not that it all materialised) and assumed everything would be finalised for IVF. Not so, it meant I had to have a second costly private consultation and have lost this month when I was hoping to start my IVF. Bounced through 3 consultations when one would have sufficed. I really think it's important we have confidence in our clinics, but mine is falling short, and I can see that more now that I'm reading about the positive experiences of others.

Sorry can't help on the sex q...