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Infertility

Our Infertility Support forum is a space to connect with others in the same position, discuss causes, treatment and IVF, and share infertility stories of hope and success.

Starting IVF/ICSI this month - anyone want to join the journey?

999 replies

Rumplestrumpet · 02/10/2014 09:25

After over 2.5 years TTC, we're FINALLY about to start our fertility treatment this month (ICSI). My nurse and husband forbade me from chats and forums, but after following MN threads over recent years I think it would be a great help to share the experience with those going through the same thing.

Anyone else want to share the joys/terrors of belly injections, hormonal madness and a series of medical professionals poking around your nether regions?! And, of course, hopefully a BFP at the end of it all Smile

OP posts:
Shellster52 · 19/11/2014 00:36

Smidge, I am an Aussie too! Is it okay to ask what state? I am in Victoria.

Rumple your diet sounds really healthy - natural based. I am doing high protein low carb and because of that I buy protein bars and shakes for when I am in a hurry. But then I think while it meets the criteria of high protein low carb to increase my blastocyst rate, it's probably not the healthiest with the fake sugars and whatever else they put in those things.

lildottie, you asked me to get back to you with my olive oil research. Well I am now more confused than ever. One website says that it has to do with the burn point of the oils and that olive oil burns at 190 while canola oil burns at 204. I knew I had read previously that canola was better for cooking but couldn't remember why. BUT, then I read another site that said it has to do with the type of fat and that monounsaturated doesn't turn bad, which olive oil is high in, while polyunsaturated oil does turn bad, which canola oil is high in! So I am confused. Seeing my acupuncture Dr on Friday and will ask her thoughts.

battery - you just seem to be like me and glass half empty no matter what. You were convinced based on clinic stats that you would get 2-3 mature eggs. You got 9 and you are still disappointed! When will you next get an update? Keep us posted.

nutty not sure how you are getting on but thinking of you beautiful.

As for me, I have been taking estrogen from day 20 and just waiting for my period to arrive. My cycle is between 24-29 days long and today is day 25 so any moment now.

lildottie · 19/11/2014 08:48

oh shell that is bloody confusing. I managed to avoid using any oil last night. I also found a study on the protein thing last night. I've only read the top couple of paragraphs but it gives you a %protein vs %carbs to have - >25% protein,

Smidge001 · 19/11/2014 10:36

Hi Shell I'm actually English, but living in Aus - (my hubby is Australian). We're in NSW.

I'm not really doing anything particular about my diet. Though I think I'm relatively healthy normally (she says, after scoffing a tiramisu after fish and chips and washing it down with white wine...!!) But I'm not tracking. Must say I have suddenly realised the meat over here makes a big deal if it's hormone free.. Which now makes me concerned a lot of it is pumped with hormones if it doesn't say as much. Confused saw a note today saying hormone and steroid free... Makes me wonder a bit.

Anyway, conspiracy theories aside, I suspect my main issue is immune related.

I spoke to my fertility doctor today and we have a plan for next attempt - whether fresh or frozen.

Day 4 endo scratch
Day 7 start prednisolone steroids
Day 10 have an intralipid infusion
Day of ET start Clexane
Progesterone as normal.
If pregnant have another intralipid infusion at week 7 and continue Clexane and steroids until week 10

I've just done a quick google of the intralipid infusion (which is meant to soak up my extra peripheral NK cells) and it sounds quite interesting for immune issues. Kind of wonder why I've not heard of it before. Also may try to convince her to do more than one as a UK site says 2 before OTD and then every 3-4wks til wk 10. Will do a bit more research.

Anyway, I shan't be starting til January/February which is a bit disappointing, but my doctor wasn't happy for me to be in the uk in case it worked as she wants me to be near by for regular monitoring if I actually get the elusive BFP.

Battery good luck with your embies. After my first ET I can totally understand why you opt for GA. My first one was horrible. However my second ET was totally fine (apart from being cut by the big speculum she swapped it for the smaller size after I yelped several times) the actual insertion bit was completely unnoticeable! So weird how different it can be. Hopefully the first was a one-off as I'm now due to have another endo scratch without any sedation in jan.

anroga · 19/11/2014 10:49

Hi girls

As you know I starting down regging around the 28th of this month (even though today I feel like I am going to start my period so that will mess up all the dates scheduled if I do start early!) and doing the worse thing whenever I have a spate minute and googling IVF/ICSI, long protocal, tips etc and my mind is spinning with all the tips and advice given. What to eat what not to eat, drink, exercise etc.

The latest one I keep reading about is acupuncture - has anyone tried this before starting or during as just read that a recent study has shown that women who had acupuncture before and after embryo transfer had a 42% success rate per cycle compared to 26% who had not had acupuncture!

When we went for our TIA the nurse backed up what the consultant said about maintaining a healthy diet plenty of fruit/veg, plenty of water (obvs the 2-3 litres when you start), gentle exercise, no alcohol and only 2 cups of tea/coffee a day max. Do you all think that is enough of should I be trying the high protein low carb diet etc or any of the other tips I keep reading about!

Thanks Confused x

anroga · 19/11/2014 10:51

Ps - Looking back over the thread read yours Nutty about crying your eyes out that it has come to this after all those years of TTC and I felt just the same as you one night last week going through all the information from the clinic, burst into tears and sobbed but then after my husband being so positive like he always is I pulled myself together and feel a bit better about it all this week x

lildottie · 19/11/2014 12:02

anroga I'm planning to do acupuncture and so is dh. we figure we have the money, its cheaper than a second round if ivf and if nothing else it will relax us through what is ultimately going to be one of the most stressful times of our lives.
here is the protein thing I found. haven't read it all yet though. you may find it worth a read.

Rumplestrumpet · 19/11/2014 12:08

Hi Anroga - Great that you're getting geared up for the stimming. On diet, there is so much contradictory information, I would say pick an approach that seems doable for you, and is based on what you "believe in", if that makes sense. I don't meanGod, higher powers, etc. I just mean think about your general approach to food, what makes you feel healthy. So for me, I wasn't fussed about carbs, but was more focused on natural, chemical-free foods, because this is important to me. I've been swayed by the research on the damage of E numbers, chemicals in processed foods, refined sugars etc, and I felt much better cutting these things down or out of my diet completely. For example, I never go for "low fat" yogurts with tons of flavourings, but instead have plain natural yoghurt with a teaspoon of honey. But I can't say those yoghurts are bad for you (I'm no scientist), it's just what feels right for me!
Of course, in the process, I've cut down on "bad" carbs (white pasta, white bread, crisps etc), but that hasn't really been my aim.

I know there is also evidience (I think Shell has referred to it?) that suggests high protein intake could improve the quality of eggs and embryos. I know I can't do everything, and so haven't really bothered too much about this, though I do make an effort to eat fish regularly (as I don't really eat meat).

I think the key is really working out what feels comfortable for you, and not setting your expectations too high. This can be a really stressful time, and putting extra pressure on yourself won't help. So make sure you have plenty of treats lined up too Smile

On accupuncture, I've been doing this for years (well, I haven't actually been DOING it, rather lying back and letting someone else get on with it!). I saw an accupuncturist recommended by a friend also having fertility treatment a few weeks before I started my treatment (in fact, I'm pretty sure she kick-started my ovaries as I was several weeks late and hadn't yet ovulated that month). She encouraged me to go back between EC and ET, but when it came to it she was away at that time, so I found another practitioner. I called a few to find someone who had any experience of fertility issues and IVF in particular, and found one who was warm and reassuring. She was great and, well, I can't say it's "thanks to her" that my embryo stuck, but I did get the BFP I was hoping for so it certainly didn't do any harm!

I was told off a bit on a different thread once for saying accupuncture can help with fertility issues (another poster insisted it only dealt with relaxation/stress management), but I have consistant experience of using accupuncture to treat ongoing medical problems (esp digestive), and found it works really well for me. I know it can be pricey, esp in London, but there are more and more practioners these days who offer open clinics, where you have an initial consultation in private but the subsequent treatment is done in a bigger room with several beds - this cuts down costs considerably and so is a more affordable way to have ongoing treatment.

Best of luck!

OP posts:
lildottie · 19/11/2014 12:17

well said on the food rumples. so true that you have to do what feels right. how funny u got told off on other thread! I also have had acupuncture in the past for a neck injury and found it worked wonders so I'm open minded to its fertility benefits. like you say it didn't do u any harm so why not!

anroga · 19/11/2014 13:06

Thanks for your message lildottie interested to read you are going to try the acupuncture and will read the article about the high protein x

Thank you also Rumple for your message. I completely get what you are trying to say about what you believe in diet wise. I have thought the same that you can keep reading all the dos and donts but it is down to how you feel about what you eat and drink.

I eat pretty healthy anyway but have thought I will introduce even more fruits and vegetables into my diet, made some homemade soups at the weekend which I think are a great way of getting even more veg! More water obviously, cut our caffeine etc. Definately need to eat more fish too as that is the one thing I know I do not eat enough of.

Really good to read about the acupuncture, I know you are not saying it can help with fertility issues but it seems like a great way to relieve stress. I have quite a stressful job so anything that will help me de-stress at the end of a long day (instead of a lovely big glass of vino!!).

Our of interest is your partners following the same diet? x

Rumplestrumpet · 19/11/2014 15:46

I should probably clarify that I DO actually believe accupunture can help with some fertility issues - certainly I have seen first hand how it can help regulate periods and improve/restart ovulation. But I know I don't have the scientific knowledge to back that up, so I don't try to peddle it too often (I don't have shares in the British accupuncture association, for what it's worth Wink ) And I know it's not a pancea for all things - if it were then I wouldn't be having fertility treatment!

As for DH, he's more hardcore than me - he recoils at the thought of an Enumber. He has the healthiest diet of anyone I know, which makes it much easier for me to eat healthily too. I don't think I'd cope if the cupboards were stuffed with crunchy bars and cakes!

OP posts:
allchatnicknamesgone · 19/11/2014 16:02

I tried to up the protein because I was a case for OHss, but apart from that I tried to have a balanced diet. It was bit hard though because I did have a little bit of nauseous feeling and it helped to eat. Also I literary had chocolate and some treat every night after injections!

I started acupuncture after my bfn. We'll see. The lady said to me she has a success rate of 75% within 6 months! Pretty staggering, but considering I don't have issues with my cycle, I'm not hugely confident because how can she know what to target. She sticks then in my lower addomen to increase blood flow, but that it's really.

lildottie · 19/11/2014 17:48

shell I've just been back over Zita re the oils. its to do with efas in the oils.

a) heating damages the fats so aren't as good for you

b) in the modern diet the balance of omega 6 vs omega 3 is off as we get too much 6. oils contain 6 so we should reduce the efas we get from oil. so sounds like its OK to use but use as little as poss and cold if possible.

BatteryPoweredHen · 19/11/2014 17:57

Just a quick update from me - from 6 fertilised eggs, we now have 6 x 4 cell grade 1 embies!

The embryologist did say up until now, it has been the eggs doing the work and that it will be in the next few hours that the sperm 'kick in' so to speak. Hence everything can change overnight! I am on standby to have to go in tomorrow if we need to do a 3 day transfer, but more likely will be 5 day transfer on Sat.

I'm allowing myself to be cautiously optimistic, as it is my eggs that are 'unproven' so to speak. DH has 2 DCs (accidentally) conceived from his first marriage and the embryologist said they had no problem finding all grade 1 sperm to do the ICSI with.

Even so, I bet there are thousands of BFNs arising from uber-perfect day 5 blasts - not out of the woods yet by a long shot!

BatteryPoweredHen · 19/11/2014 18:02

Re acupuncture, I'm afraid that falls squarely into the realms of 'woo' in my book and I consider it to be up there with snake oil.

However, the anaesthetist at the Lister does acupuncture on all her patients herself while under the GA during the EC procedure so I have had it in this cycle (she asked me if I objected, and I didn't have the heart to tell her I believed it to be bunkum, not while she was going to be the one monitoring my vital signs!)

lildottie · 19/11/2014 18:12

hen can i ask why did they do icsi if there are no sperm issues? excellent news on the fertilisation. fx its all uphill from here

BatteryPoweredHen · 19/11/2014 18:16

He has a very low count (from a couple of samples), and low(ish) motility (but excellent morphology).

His existing DCs are teenagers, so it just looks like his count has diminished more quickly over the years than would have been expected to have occurred naturally.

Oddly though, our first (sadly terminated for abnormalities) pregnancy was achieved first month of trying. Nature's a funny beast, eh?

lildottie · 19/11/2014 19:34

so just had a lucky sample with quality on the day then. maybe its just meant to be Wink . sorry to hear about your termination Thanks that must have been tough.

Shellster52 · 20/11/2014 00:23

battery that's a fantastic result! And for the first time you sound cautiously optimistic. I know as you say, the embryos are more likely to not survive as they head from day 3 to day 5, but with 6 to start with, that is good odds! Imagine getting your BFP and looking back thinking how you seriously considered cancelling this cycle!

lildottie, I must have read the same study re protein/carb percentages as I am using Calorie King website to make sure I fit into those percentages too. The protein bars have fake sugars like sucralose or maltitol which are chemical sweeteners so while no carbs, probably not good for us-but very convenient.

While I obsess over my foods, I know there are other studies that show those who relax and let go have more success than those obsessive compulsive people like me who panic about every detail. So I do agree with Rumple not to get to stressed about all this and good on you Smidge for enjoying your tiramisu, chips and wine combo! I am am trying a meditation CD for the first time with my upcoming IVF to focus on relaxing and TRY to stop obsessing.

I too am trying the acupuncture. I was like Hen and not a believer, but my acupuncture is done by a Dr and is very scientific about it. She has seen studies where they have taken samples and actually seen the hormone levels change at the site after acupuncture. And while *Rumples says she doesn't have scientific knowledge to back up her acupuncture belief, there is a study here along with others on the net that shows acupuncture on day of ET significantly increases success. So I am reformed and now a believer!

Rumplestrumpet · 20/11/2014 09:28

Hallelujah ! Ha ha, thanks for that shell, I'll have a look at the link later. My accupuncturist is also a GP, so I have no doubt on her scientific knowledge. But I understand that Hen isn't into it - my DH is pretty sceptical (I'll show him Shellster's link though) and he went for accupuncture but his cynicism was overwhelming and I just told him not to bother going - I felt like his body was actually fighting against the treatment, so what's the point ? That's what I meant earlier about finding the right healthy eating plan that works for you.

As for all those embies, that's really great news Hen. I know it's nerve wracking waiting to see how they develop, but you're in a good position. And yes, some will not be viable, but some will be, so you just have to hope for the best.

OP posts:
nutty123 · 20/11/2014 10:14

Well, today is test day. And I'm am ecstatic to say that after 4 years of trying, I have just seen two lines on my pregnancy test and for the first time ever, I can say I have a bfp!!!!
I still can't believe it and I think I am in shock. Still have a long way to go but for today, I am over the moon!!!

Fingers crossed for everyone else

allchatnicknamesgone · 20/11/2014 10:17

OMG OMG OMG!!!!! nutty that is the best news ever. So happy for you and praying that you have a healthy next 9 months!!!
And you were so so sure it was your AF. They are so similar aren't they?! don't panic though if you keep getting AF type pains. it's a good thing. Means they are implanting well and everything is stretching!
Did you say you had 1 or 2 put back in?

nutty123 · 20/11/2014 10:25

Thank you allchat
Yes I did think AF was coming as I have had pains since Monday. No other symptoms though!!
I had two put back in. Now slightly worrying about twins!!
I never thought I would get any eggs with my AMH at 5.2, let alone a bfp. Now to wait for my clinic to phone me back.
I wish you all the luck in the world for your next round.
If this 38 year old can do it, so can you!!

allchatnicknamesgone · 20/11/2014 10:27

Thanks nutty - I'll do it!!!! just when is the big question.

You must be on cloud 9.

If it is twins then yes it will be hard but always remember how hard it was to desperately want children and not succeed.

It goes to show, this game is really down to luck doesn't it! x

nutty123 · 20/11/2014 11:26

Definitely allchat, all down to luck.

Smidge001 · 20/11/2014 11:39

Congratulations nutty!! That is amazing news, I am thrilled for you! Seeing the double lines must have been amazing Grin.