Assisted conception after recurrent miscarriage part 6

[Arianrhod]

Part 5 here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/a1852840-Assisted-conception-after-recurrent-miscarriage-part-5

brown congrats on the early bfp! I have only ever used first response tests and then clearblue indicators to see the pregnancy move on. If its a positive on a first response I would trust that. Are you popping the preds etc now?

Had my 20 week scan and all is ok. I have a low lying placenta which they think will move up but it's not covering the cervix so won't affect the pregnancy. Would need a c section if it doesn't move but hopefully it will.

belly I agree that doctors have no way of understanding how we feel. Even friends who have kids can't appreciate how we feel unless they have experienced recurrent miscarriage.

Waves to everyone and good luck to all those on the 2ww.

Belly I had bleeding from hysto until af arrived as well, I would say it's quite normal so try not to worry. I didn't have to take anything or wait after my hysto and septum removal, I just went straight into ivf with next af . It's amazing how differently things get treated from clinic to clinic!

Sue I can't believe the treatment you received , what an insensitive cow!! Of course you were going to be worried and on edge!!!

Ari couldn't believe your treatment either, what's wrong with people!

Whispered congrats Brownand good luck !

brown whispered (but huge!) congrats! I only ever rely on FRER as I just don't trust the internet cheapies, so with any luck and a following wind, this may just be the magic one!

belly You're absolutely spot on, definitely not out of place. I just don't think a lot of them have a clue, they 'know' from book-learning (etc) but having never actually gone through it physically, cannot truly 'know' what we go through.

sue Excellent news about your 20 week scan. I too had a low-lying placenta, they just told me at the 28 week scan on Fri that it had moved up. I was told that in the majority of cases this is what happens.

Good luck on your 2ww village (and anyone else that I've missed!) :)

Brilliant news, Sue, that must be a massive weight off your mind. Until the next ten things to worry about of course.
Thanks for all your congratulations. I'm just so chuffed that our aging gametes managed to get it on at all to be honest.
I am chucking down the pred and using nanny's cyclogest that she sent me. I may not even have got pregnant if it wasn't for the cyclogest, as my previous cycle had a 10-day luteal phase and I got a first positive at 11dpo this cycle. It just shows how things change so much from month to month, as a couple of cycles ago I was convinced I was menopausal.
Good luck, Village, and for the 25th, Belly.
Yes, I wish I'd used First Response at 10dpo from the start. They really are reliable. The internet cheapies are now going weakly positive now though, so I think they are 25miu tests wrongly packaged as 10miu. And amazingly, I am doing minimal testing, *Village'. Since they have been getting stronger, I don't feel the same need to retest (and potentially ruin my day!).

sue that's fantastic scan news, and a major milestone behind you. I was told exactly the same about my placenta at my 20 week scan with DD, and lo and behold it moved up (as ari says, very common.) So glad and relieved for you!!

brown getting stronger - how brilliant is that? Totally understand your not wanting to keep testing. This is such great news!

Ari hope today was bearable!

Had to find something to worry about. I had two fillings today, long overdue on two broken back molars. I told the dentist I was pregnant and she said they avoid elective work in pregnancy generally but this will be fine. It's removing old fillings that's not a good idea but adding new ones is okay. She said she didn't remove any old fillings but I'm sure there was some remaining filling there that she then drilled. Frantically googling now and there seems to be conflicting opinions. I'm not sure how new ones can be okay as inevitably they file them down to fit and that involves swallowing little pieces of amalgam ...

Apologies for droning ...

Oh, and I now find out that composite fillings can contain bisphenol A, wich can cause miscarriage, so they 're no better ...

brown Step. Away. From. Dr. Google!!!! :) Your fillings will be fine, and will have no effect at all. Relax! :) :)

Well, 6 hours, copious vials of blood taken (12!!), one glucose test and an appt with God aka the Head of Haematology, and guess what? I'm fine. No, really, I'm fine. All tests indicate there's absolutely nothing wrong.

Did I tell them that already? Yes, I believe I did! :)

Actually the good professor was really lovely and, unusual in a senior consultant in my experience, actually pleased that I was 'well informed' on my blood clotting side of things. Told me I was clearly taking a bunch of supplements, reading my blood results, and that I was doing exactly the right thing. No I can't stop taking the Clexane :( , but he explained exactly - in biological detail, all of which he wrote down for me - why. And he's insisted he needs to know when my scheduled delivery date is (I told him they won't even discuss it till my 36 week appt; he said I have to push them for a date as he needs to know!), and has said I have to see him again at 36 weeks, with yet more blood tests (just to make sure everything is still ok) being taken at 34 weeks. Now he is a consultant I could get on with.

Ari thats great , always feels good when God/ head of department/ senior consultant agree with you Funnily it is those on lower levels who seem to have issues....
Brown I know it is pretty much impossible to relax and not worry. My strategy is to pick something which is relatively unlikely to happen, not really serious if it happened and ignore big stuff. This way I can worry as much as I want knowing noting bad will happen ( know that sounds crazy but it works for me....)
Sue great news about your scan. Are you going to have anymore scans or thats it?
Belly unless someone is in exactly the same situation they don't understand. Sorry, could you remind me where you had your aquascan before your hysteroscopy? Was it at Zita West?
I had my consultation with Dr Ndukwe at Zita West today and finally have a plan I am happy with (and we are able to pay for)
I will have 3 intralipids 2 weeks apart - will start next week Friday and take baby aspirin continuously. After BFP stop aspirin and start fragmin, cyclogest and 20mgs prednisolone + intralipids every 4 weeks. Scan at 7 and 9 weeks.
If I am not pregnant by January I will need to see him again - or if I miscarry to see him asap.
I do not need Humira and LIT

Oh , have a technical question - is there any chance that ASDA own test is more sensitive than cleablue +? 12 DPO and have a very faint line on ASDA test but nothing on clearblue+...... Also bright red spotting (only when I wipe) which is weird considering I am on progesterone tablets and normally have 14-15 days luteal phase.....

Ooh, nanny. I don't use Clear Blue often but I've always read that they're not very sensitive so completely possible. Are they they only tests you've tried?
Excellent news on the plan.
Btw, I have found this pregnancy, as with previous ones, that I do not get my best results from first-morning urine, but later in the day. Lord knows why but maybe worth testing later today again.
Ari; I think the really intelligent medical personnel will realise it's a good thing for their patients to be informed. It's only the less intelligent ones who see well-informed patients as a hindrance, or a threat, to them.
You are right; I really do need to step away. Although I did wake up at 3 composing a letter of complaint to my dentist in my head, that my consent wasn't informed. I feel I wasn't involved in the decision-making process or safer alternatives offered ... maybe I need to calm down a bit.
I did a Clear Blue yesterday and it said 2-3 weeks. I was 14dpo then so exactly 4 weeks (or 2 weeks in Clear Blue dating logic). That's got to be good, hasn't it? You would think so, except my brain has turned this into proof of another Down's pregnancy. Or maybe two Down's pregnancies.

brown That's very good - at 14dpo on a Clearblue digi I'd be expecting you to be seeing 1-2 weeks pregnant. 2-3 weeks should mean a good hCG level - if you want to be sure, perhaps get your bloods done? And of course your brain is going to put up defenses, after all you've been through that's completely natural! Roll with it for the moment, try to take one day at a time.

nanny I believe the CB ones are sensitive to 25 miu (although I could be wrong); I don't know about the Asda ones but I know the FRER are supposed to be something like 12 miu, so if you wanted a more definitie answer, perhaps get an FRER?

nanny that sounds like a very encouraging plan - and as if you might also perhaps get some good news in the next few days? The Clearblue digis are definitely 25miu, not the best at picking up very early pregnancy.

Ari so glad you had a positive experience with the prof!

brown how wonderful that you have such a strong result. If you see 14DPO as the start of week 3, then that all sounds as good as it could be. Still nerve-wracking though, I know.

Brown yey to 2-3 weeks on CB digital... What are your plans now? Are you under any RMC on NHS? Or you will see Dr S again? Or just leave it an see a midwife eventually?
Ari sorry have a question - why did you see the haematologist? Was it because of your MTHFR? Is that why you need to carry on with clexane? Or do you have some other blood clotting issue? This is all new for me and I never had it tested but will do for a peace of mind if the treatment would be different if I had it. Also from what I read it looks like it is recommended to test for MTHFR if someone has macrolytic anaemia which I have.
I didnt test with FRER as I went to 3 shops and they were sold out. Will leave it till Friday when AF should start. I dont actually even want to be pregnant now till I start with my new plan. I dont believe it would work anyway.

nanny Yes it's because of my MTHFR, I'm homozygous for the C677T variant. Mr S dismisses it as largely irrelevant, but I can tell you, the Professor I saw yesterday absolutely does not, far from it! It was actually very reassuring to see someone who takes it seriously over here, seems very few people do. I have no other clotting problems, and yes, I have to carry on with 40mg clexane a day until 6 weeks post-partum.

I asked him how come I was perfectly fine with my DD when I was taking nothing at all and his answer was to the effect of, well we'll never know but you may just have been lucky! He told me that until blood clotting issues were recognised, the thing that caused most maternal deaths was actually thromboses. He doesn't believe in taking any chances with MTHFR homo, and said even if I was younger/not having twins/not had IVF he would still want me treated (on more than aspirin - he said this absolutely isn't enough) when pregnant.

Incidentally I have no anaemia and no obvious indicators for MTHFR homozygosity - if I hadn't been tested, no-one would be any the wiser.

Thank you so much Ari will have it tested than. With my borderline Proteine C ans S deficiency I'd better know if there is something else which need treating.
In your case was the clexane the best treatment? Or could you have used fragmin instead? And do you take aspirin as well? Sorry for all this questions...
Also how did you end up with haematologist? Were you referred by midwife?

Yes, you should get it checked nanny, Protein C and S are something the Professor was talking about gets affected in pregnancy and is an issue for those with clotting problems.

I'm on Clexane purely because that's what I was started on during the IVF cycle with Serum; I think Fragmin is probably more widely used in the UK.

I do take 75mg aspirin as well, yes, and I was told to carry on taking it - it has a different effect on clotting than Clexane does.

I ended up with the Head of Haematology because I asked my consultant if I could stop taking Clexane at 12 weeks (the standard time IVF patients with Serum stop taking it). Serum had advised if you have blood clotting issues to check with your consultant before stopping it, so I did. She didn't have a clue, one of her registrars spoke with one of the haematology team at the hospital who wasn't well versed enough in MTHFR to advise either way, so my consultant then said it should be referred to the Head of Haematology, as he's extremely experienced. And he is, thankfully!

Ask anything you like, I don't mind :) I only know that I researched this when I was first diagnosed, and ascertained that it is potentially a whole lot more serious than Mr S was prepared to believe, so started taking l-methylfolate (instead of the folic acid Mr S said to take) along with the methylcobalamin form of B12 and high-dose B6. Which all turns out to be have been completely correct, according to the Prof.

Presumably, then, Ari, this isn't something Mr S would have tested for when he does the initial batch of tests on new patients?

And yes, Nanny, seeing Mr S on the 29th. I also rang my GP to tell him of my pregnancy and they'll set everything in motion (midwife, perinatal psychiatrist and anything else they think they need) after that.
Thanks all for your good wishes.
I have sent a message today to a naturopath called Dr Ramsey who believes melatonin supplementation is a good thing in pregnancy for older women. She thinks low melatonin can be passed on to your child, including her own son. This is contrary to all medical advice of course.

Good everything is confirmed ok Ari, it's nice to know you are doing the right thing and that all that research wasn't wasted.

Sounds like good news Nanny although understand you being worried. Sounds like your appointment went well, is great to get a plan in place.

All sounding good Brown
I was tested for MTHFR with Mr S on the initial tests and tested heterozygous which he dismissed as nothing to worry about . I looked into it a bit and also on speaking on here to Ari about it started taking l-methylfolate.

Maybe I should ask Mr S about it when I see him. How are you, Pebbles?

Just wanted to ask your advice ArI take Pregnacare max which has the l methylfolate in and normal folic acid. I had been reading that if you have any MTHFR issues you shouldn't take normal folic acid as it can block the folate receptors, did you take Pregnacare or anything like that?

Sorry Brown must have crossed posts! If you have all your initial blood tests to hand anywhere have a look, mine was on the back page of them all.

I am doing ok, started back on the drugs on Saturday. Been feeling a bit grumpy and short tempered which must be the Progynova (Oestrogen) and been very busy at work which hasn't helped. Have a scan Saturday to check my lining etc and should then should find out when I need to be in Greece. I think maybe it's good so busy at work so haven't had time to think about it all too much.

Pebbles best of luck for sat scan. Hope this is THE one which will work. I have that one box of utrogestan which I can't use - will send it to you if you want.
Brown not too long to wait for your appointment - where will you see him? Harley street? And great to have GP who knows what to do.
Ari of course I spent most of my time since yesterday googling MTHFR and there was an interesting article saying that even if you don't have the mutation people with underactive thyroid can have problems / symptoms like with the mutation. Now I really have to know... Anyway I checked my B vit and it has the right folate, B12 and high dose B6 so even if I had it for the moment I am fine. Am taking purebio homocystein factors which were quite expensive. Checked their website and looks like they don't make them anymore... Where do you get yours from?
Tested last night (13 DPO) with IC - as don't have any other tests - and had a lovely, nost convincing evap ( grey and showed just after 10mins) my poor DH had a look and got really excited as he saw a second line and I had to tell him that evaps are not BFP. I give up on IC. They are the most frustrating tests. You can see a hint of a line as soon as you do the test but nothing clear till after 10mins... And than it is grey... Grrrrr

Pebbles so sorry just checked the utrogestan and it is past use by date!!! Sorry, should have checked before I offered. Right, guess it is time to check all my vits and supplements...