So what do you say to people who say things like "I'm praying for you".....?

[HesterShaw]

......or who offer you all kinds of stories of hope when you find hope so bloody exhausting and pointless? I don't want to say "Thanks but that really doesn't help" in case it hurts their feelings, but I could really really NOT do with hearing things like "Never say never, my friend's son's partner is suddenly pregnant for the first time at 41", or "It'll happen for you sweetie, I KNOW it will. You WILL get your baby." How? How the fuck do you know that?

There are some people who will never succeed and I am probably one of them. Yes, I have IVF to come, but it's one round. One round probably won't work. I refuse to spend any more time helplessly hoping - I just want my life back. Four years TTC, two failed IUIs, more waiting lists than I can count, nothing apparently wrong apart from low AMH (and that's probably so low because I've spent so much time bloody waiting)....and never so much as a late period, let along a line on a stick, let alone a baby.

I don't want to sound bitter. I wish other people would just accept it. It's as though they find it embarrassing so they feel like they should jolly you along and encourage you, when actually they know nothing about it. When I said to my cousin we were only giving it one shot at IVF, she regaled me with stories about how several of her friends had succeeded on their second go, and how I really mustn't give up. I don't have five grand for one round of IVF - well, I do, or I could borrow it, but what's the point if I know it almost certainly won't work? Imagine paying back loans for years, knowing that it was for failed IVF. I couldn't do it.

It's not that I'm unpleasant, or ungrateful, or horrible. I just wish that it was more widely accepted that for some people, nothing will work, no matter how much positivity they have, or no matter how many good wishes they receive.

Just ranting really. Sorry.

Hester your last sentence is exactly what should be said in these types of circumstances, I think.

Ah sorry, cross-posted. I mean the last sentence in the first of your last two posts, argh !

The "I know it'll work thing." Do we think that's a modern habit?

I kind of equate it with "the can-do, follow your dream, you can be whatever you want to be" mentality. Which, in its place, has helped many people to overcome low expectations born of prejudice, and was a Good Thing. But now, has become a sort of "every woman a princess" sort of mindset.

I wonder if our parents were just more realistic about life generally?

I think when people come across a situation that is outside their personal experience, & involves suffering of any kind, there's always room for 'foot in mouth' syndrome of varying degrees. I suspect fwiw most people don't want to just say nothing in case you'd think they don't care.

I have a rusty Christian faith...I try to be sensitive with offers of prayer, as I will never forget certain 'christian's' responses & attitudes when we found out mum's illness was terminal. I don't see God as some kind of vending machine who pops out fluffy comfy answers to prayer tokens, & whilst there are many, many times when I don't understand why something bad is happening / being allowed to happen, what I do believe is that he never abandons us to go through it alone. So when I pray for families in difficult times, whilst I will pester ask God for healing / financial solutions / whatever the immediate need may be, I will also ask for God's protection, strength & support for the people involved, that they may have peace & hope in their situation & that God would move the right people to the right places to support them, etc - after all we're supposed to be His hands & feet.

I guess if you aren't someone who believes in Jesus then all that might seem like so much wasted effort, but if it helps try & think of it as people holding you in their hearts & wishing you well - I don't think you need to enthuse or say anything really unless they start waffling on & being insensitive verbal trots & foot in mouth in which case I say I'm finding the conversation difficult & please can we talk about something else? That usually shuts them up does the trick!

I guess just remember that people are falible, even those who mean well. I try & do the right thing but when my sugar levels are haywire I'm grumpy as hell not good socially for example. Take the good wishes & don't feel you have to take on board other people baggage as it were (all the stories for e.g)

Wishing you well...

Thank you Plodding. What a lovely post :)

I have no issue with being prayed for - I should probably get the thread title changed really.

Beast, that's a very good point actually. Is it something to do with the "It'll happen for you hun if you believe hard enough, you just gotta dream..." generation?

It's the same kind of thing as
"I truly believe that if you want something hard enough, it'll happen."
"I believe everything happens for a reason."

Both of which abound.

YUCK!!!

What it is, is patronising even if well meant. Ttc for 2 yrs, we did have dd eventually but saying you 'know' it will happen is minimising and dim, even if well intentioned. We didn't know it would happen, so how the hell could they?

Yes, I think that's what it is.

"Everything happens for a reason" drives me nuts too.

I am not as nice as you are about being prayed for. Not because I think there is anything wrong with the motivation of the person praying. But because my reason for being an atheist is because I can't reconcile a loving and powerful god with the problem of suffering (apart from suffering clearly caused by man, which presents no problem in that respect). So to me, prayer is a form of saying that everything happens for a reason.

And saying that god will give me the strength to cope is also a difficult thing to appreciate. My view is that if god existed, he would have been the creator of all things. That includes being the creator of my son's disability. I don't want to be given the grace to tolerate what has been done to my son, nor do I want the perpetrator (in this scenario, god) to come and offer sympathy or support.

I'm sure this isn't the thread for a long discussion of the problem of suffering, especially as the OP doesn't mind prayer. I just wanted to hint at some of the reasons why it is not so simple as saying, oh, how can you object to prayer, they mean it kindly. Yes, they do, but demonstrating your faith to someone is a bad situation can be very offensive, if it the reality of that situation which is their reason for being an atheist.

IME people who have had fertility issues can be worse (not always to be fair) if they have gone on to have children. Because whilst they can appreciate the process you have gone through, they really really don't understand that cold prickly sinking feeling when you realise that you do have to give up.

If people ever offer to pray for me I just smile as say "that's kind of you" whilst thinking "FUCK OFF" because it helped me to think so and I'm sure they would like me to feel better...

OP what would you like people to say to you? I'd honestly like to know, have had so many friends and family dealing with infertility and sometimes it's so difficult to know what to say, I always feel like I've put a foot in it.

I've prayed consistently for people, it's what Christians do, sometimes I really struggle with God and how unfair life is so prayer isn't always a supplication. ..sometimes it's begging to know why or a no nonsense 'conversation' with God.

I wish you all the best in your IVF journey x

"That sounds very hard. I'm sorry you're going through that." OP brother siad that.

I find that sort of response worked perfectly well.

Yes I find it amusing that it's the mad brother, who said the most apt thing! I even said that to him at the time.

DH's uncle always asks: "so when are you two going to have a family then?"
My answers have included "oh we've got the cats, what else do we need?"
"Are you honestly asking us about our sex life?!"
"Oh do shut the f* up!"
He can take this kind of abuse, luckily, I wouldn't say that last one to anyone else! Wondering what I should say if he asks again this Christmas...

Ironically the most sympathetic people we've told are one of our most fertile couple friends. They said, it must suck when you hear we're expecting again. She said, you must hate it when I bitch about the annoyances babies and kids bring, I'm sorry. He said, is there anything we can say to help, would you like us to ask how things are when you see us or should we wait for you to tell? Bless them.
My work colleagues have also been very matter of fact about when I said we were doing ivf which was refreshing.

But honestly I think it's v difficult to get it right every time for every person struggling. One thing- never say "have you tried X?" They will have, I guarantee it, and a lot of other things besides.

Can you not say to the Uncle "We have been trying for ages and unfortunately we are infertile" just to shut him up?

People's rudeness absolutely astounds me. There are three reasons a couple in their late 30s and early 40s don't have children:

1. They have decided they don't want any
2. They are currently trying and are still hopeful
3. They are infertile.

None of them are anyone else's business.

What I meant to say is, unless they have chosen to confide in you.

I realise that last post entirely contradicts all my others :)

I think with him in particular,- I almost like to give stupid responses- I just think, surely he can work out that infertility is a fairly likely reason? We both come from big families, both love babies and kids, can't he figure that maybe we aren't choosing this! I know one of his kids struggled to conceive too although not as long as us.
We are both saying more to people after this kinds of comments "yes we would love kids, but: you can't just order them you know / unfortunately it doesn't seem like it's going to be straightforward for us / who knows how long it'll take to happen". At least hopefully gets them thinking and maybe the next person they want to ask, they'll think twice.

I have learned so much through this process, I want to be almost preachy... When I hear from friends already in their mid 30s and getting married that they are going to wait a couple of years to TTC I want to say, no please, at least look at the stats before deciding. But I don't obviously.

I guess the brother with schizophrenia knows what trouble is. I expect that would also be a good thing for us all to say to people who are having no bad mental health.

no clearly typed by my subconscious.

I had a boss who had led a very untroubled life. The office, as it happens, had a lot of young married women in it. One by one they left to start their families. One woman didn't. He was constantly teasing her, "well, L, you'll be next" etc.

One day she came in, resigned, and told him she had just agreed to adopt a family of three siblings.

I don't think he even felt bad

I just think people like that boss are lucky if they have never experienced or had someone they love experience this particular pain and it just never crosses their radar. I can't imagine that for some people getting pregnant is hardly even a big deal! I am finding that the more you start talking about infertility and IVF, the more you hear about it. I told my boss this week that we were having an IVF cycle in the new year and I was bracing for embarrassment, awkward silences and cringing questions. I don't really like him much. However he just said, "ah, well, I am sorry you're going through this. We had three cycles ourselves many years ago.". So that was nice that he was so understanding. Unfortunately he did go on to say "... it didn't work for us, but then we were eventually lucky enough to get 2 kids the natural way. So don't give up on the natural way of doing it, hoho!" and the awkwardness reigned :-D

I just read through this whole thread nodding. In the last few months after 2 years plus of infertility we've found out that I somewhat menopausal (aged 29) and my husband has low sperm count. The chances of us having kids even with ivf are incredibly low. And yet people will INSIST on telling us that "we'll get there", and about there neighbours sister (or someone else they don't know very well) is JUST like us and has just had ivf twins etc etc. It makes me .

A "friend" (albeit a tipsy one) on a Friday told me it would probably happen for us if we just relaxed a bit. And that this whole thing had been quite good for me as I'd "chilled out" a bit since we found out. I've not chilled out - the reason why my work has suffered, I've lost a tonne of fitness and stopped going out is because I'm FUCKING DEPRESSED.

Rant over.

DrSocks - if its any consolation if you move on to consider adoption you will then hear all about that woman (that apparently everyone knows) who got pregnant the second they applied to adopt .

Because apparently adoption cures infertility.

Min you the person who said this to me when I was on the cusp of adopting DS and the whole thing would have been called off at that point if I'd got pregnant was probably a bit startled when I responded in horror "Oh FUCK! I hope not"

Kewcumber

When my DSis was adopting, people told her she'd have a baby, it always happens, and wouldn't that be WONDERFUL, as she wouldn't need to adopt at all...

She didn't want to get pregnant and have a baby, because then adopting her daughter couldn't happen. Like having another child automatically means you don't care/don't want to be a parent to your own child just because you adopted her.