Reform of Public Pension

[ladylush]

Knew it was coming but what do we think of the proposals?

1. Raising employee contributions
2. Raising retirement age from 60 (e.g nurses) to 65
3. Altering final salary schemes - talk of hybrid scheme
4. Capping pensions below £50k

I hate the lip-smacking slavering at the prospect of public sector workers finally getting theirs. I think some people really believe that we're all Whitehall mandarins with vast pensions.

I am a civil servant, and joined after they closed the old final salary scheme. I am facing imminent redundancy, as are the majority of my colleagues. We will enter a job market that currently has little use for public sector experience. I don't know what will happen; I have worked hard for over 20 years in the public sector (for a salary way below what I would have got in the private sector equivalent: I'm not complaining about that, I never wanted to make that choice, but it's a fact). I am the breadwinner in my family, I have a mortgage and two small children, and I have no idea how I am going to keep a roof over their heads.

I'm not saying 'poor me' or doing special pleading. I know there are any number of others in the same position. And I accept that, in the current economic climate, things are going to get tough for everybody. But, you know, a little compassion from others wouldn't go amiss. I didn't gloat when bankers were losing their jobs. I don't think anybody deserves 'about time too' responses.

JGBmum- indeed. How many?

So where is the distinction in the media or from the government about public sector pensions? It is a huge area covering a huge variety of pay scales and jobs. They are building and contributing to the hype, so the whole of the public sector is being demonised and who will suffer in the end?

The front line staff and the public for whom it serves.

But JGB the top earning beaurocrats are not the people who are going to be most impacted by these changes. It is the run of the mill working man and (more often) woman. Those who are earning over £100k are going to still be sitting pretty - but those on £15k are going to be pretty much screwed.

Don't be lulled into thinking that all the public sector reforms that the Tories are bringing in will hit the fat cats - they won't.

lego - me too, absolutely furious - it wouldn't be so bad if there was some decent and honest reporting about the reality of Public Sector pensions/pay/redundancy but its all misinformation and propoganda. And people don't bother to find out the truth they just make up their views based on the crap they read in the papers.

I think I'm going to get a stomach ulcer!!

Hester, it is poor you. I am sorry, it must so stressful for you. I hope you can find something else soon. Agreed about the 'about time too' comments.

JGBMum, who are these bureaucrats you're talking about? Most public sector workers are normal people on very average wages who are of course affected by the very policies they're working on.

I hate the lazy way people are labelled 'bureaucrats' in a way that dehumanises them and implies they deserve everything they are getting. I suppose you could call me a bureaucrat, in that I have spent most of my working life in support roles to frontline staff, so releasing them to get on with their jobs. I have organised major trauma services so that the doctors and nurses can get on with treating desperately ill people. I have organised essential training and development for midwives. I have raised money for services to drug users. I have researched violence against women and developed guidelines to help reduce it. I have just finished working with a group of teenagers to get a really deep understanding of what encourages them to use health services.

And yes, I've also done work that I don't think was good use of taxpayers' money. Mostly because of some ministerial whim or yet another NHS reorganisation. Constant NHS reorganisation needs a lot of bureaucracy, you know. And I don't know one of us bureaucrats who wouldn't hang out the bunting for a whole lot less of it.

Thank you, lego. You've made me go all teary-eyed - it's an immensely stressful time and very sweet of you to be sympathetic.

pocketmonster, it feels like we are in a no win situation. If things go very badly, there will be strikes in many sectors. Then instead of getting public backing, we won't because of how the gove and media have played it and because people do not bother to find out the facts like you say.
And because of the attitudes in this country, that seems to be : If we are treated badly then you should be too.

We cant afford to pay the public sector pensions. The unfunded liability is huge. It will drag the country down otherwise.

There is no option. The public sector pensions were always far too generous and succesive Govts just allowed it to carry on.

hester - sorry I was using the term beaurocrat to refer to the top earning people in the public sector, many who came in on mega high salaries from the private sector for short term contracts who then 'converted' to be permanent employees when things got hot in the private sector, and they saw their prospects shrink. I know that isn't the right meaning...but it seems to be the meaning applied in the press these days.

Having said all that, I don't think anybody 'has it coming' or 'deserves' to have their future destroyed. Most of the support for the public sector cuts seems to be fed by envy - as the media are painting a picture of highly paid people sitting on their arses doing sod all - I don't know anybody like that. The highest paid work incredibly long hours and have incredibly responsible jobs and the lowest paid also work hard and for little reward. Also people in the highest paid jobs have worked hard to get there - why should they be attacked for being successful?

I just can't understand how come the govt didn't invest the pension contributions to provide pensions, like they do in the private sector.

It seems totally barmy to me.

I'd personally like to know why private sector companies are not being forced to divert some of their massive profits into making proper provision for their employees' retirement. Why should the taxpayer foot the bill to pay for these people in retirement whilst the shareholders line their own pockets? Why drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator, instead of making every sizeable private sector company take the same responsibility for their employees as does the public sector. Any reforms to the public sector pension schemes should definitely be matched by increased responsibilities in the private sector so that the two meet in the middle.

Oh dear.We have all educated your children,nursed you when you are sick,and helped when you have need of emergency services,all for much less than you would get in the private sector.Yes we are greedy fuckers.No
mention of all of the extra shifts and the unpaid overtime

Christ we are an overpaid bunch of lazy feckers.

How dare we ask for a crappy pension

We stand corrected.

Hester,

"I have organised major trauma services so that the doctors and nurses can get on with treating desperately ill people. I have organised essential training and development for midwives. I have raised money for services to drug users. I have researched violence against women and developed guidelines to help reduce it. I have just finished working with a group of teenagers to get a really deep understanding of what encourages them to use health services"

...what wonderful things you have done and some of which I have probably benefited from too-thank you.

The government are fools.

What really, really pisses me off about this is the expectation that public sector terms and conditions should be reduced rather than raising those of people in the private sector to an acceptable level. Those in the private sector seem happy to kick us rather than say 'hang on, they've got a point!'

So when the private sector eventually hits boom time again, which it will, are the government likely to give us public sector workers the same benefits that they are getting? Answers on a postcard.

I'd personally like to know why private sector companies are not being forced to divert some of their massive profits into making proper provision for their employees' retirement. Why should the taxpayer foot the bill to pay for these people in retirement whilst the shareholders line their own pockets? Why drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator, instead of making every sizeable private sector company take the same responsibility for their employees as does the public sector. Any reforms to the public sector pension schemes should definitely be matched by increased responsibilities in the private sector so that the two meet in the middle.

killercleavage, try answers on a stamp and save the card..it will only have 2 letters in that word so it should fit nicely.

Agree with lego pocketmonster and hester.

As a serving police officer with 16 years service and having been threatened with a firearm, screwdriver and physically assaulted more times than I care to remember - who wants to swop? I have dealt with rape victims, child deaths and murders all of which have affected me mentally.

My job has affected both my relationship with my family and my partner. Working shifts means that I have lost casual friends.
As has previously been mentioned you don't just switch off at 5pm. I joined the job to do the best I could which has meant that I have become emotionally involved in a lot of my cases
I pay 11% of my pay in pension as well as the usual contributions.
Yes I retire after 30 years but both mentally and physically I don't think I would be able to continue.

I have friends who are teachers/social workers/nurses who have their own story to tell. Do they too deserve to have their pension cut?
Public pensions have been too generous? I don't think for frontline jobs such as ours you can say that.

Also agree with MavisEnderby - we get paid considerably less than private sector workers anyway

NHS retiral at 60 was closed in 1998.

Lots of myths about public sector pensions. Which is strange since the t&cs are in the public domain so it would be very easy for the government & media not to hype up this idea of us all being on course for retiral on half pay (£50k natch) at 50

Respect to you Sharon.I only have to deal with "natural" deaths.Could never be a police officer.

Would love to retire on 50k! If only.
Not trying to say my job is harder than anyone elses in public sector. I couldn't be a teacher for example but I respect what they do.

As previous poster has said - it shouldn't be about us and them and having to justify our right to a decent pension.

But so many people seem happy to believe the bullshit!

Indeed lego. Though I think it might be two words, one starting with the letter F!

Sharongless, I wouldn't be able to cope with that for a day- I am not swapping but thanks!

beenbeta, the country cannot afford for us all to go and do something else instead either!

As it is I am looking at staying on my current pay for the next two years while my rent keeps increasing as does food etc.

For me personnaly, I have already had cuts each year into my wage for the past 2 years. That actually amounts to a pay cut every year for 4 years for me, at least.

Now if you make me pay extra towards my pension I will of course do so-I will make further cuts to my personnal budget [which is about the same after tax and childcare to someone being in reciept of JSA] so there is not much to really play with.

However, if you tell me that after all I do for my work and a life long commitment to my work, and after all my work has effected my own kids and life outside work, that I will get peanuts at the end of it and that I will still be reliant upon benfits in my old age...I will leave. And I will not be the only one.

hadn't thought of that KC!

Very, very good posts lego