Reform of Public Pension

[ladylush]

Knew it was coming but what do we think of the proposals?

1. Raising employee contributions
2. Raising retirement age from 60 (e.g nurses) to 65
3. Altering final salary schemes - talk of hybrid scheme
4. Capping pensions below £50k

Obviously I mean Public Sector Pension!

About bloody time imo.

The Armed Forces have their salaries restricted for their contribution; and as a teacher I paid in my contributions. The employer (HMG) chooses not to put our money aside to fund our pensions from our contributions, but to spend it on other things.

If HMG tries to reform public sector pensions for those approaching retirement, they are going to get sued, and it will cost more in the long run.

For some sections of the public sector there is a mandatory retirement age (for the Armed Forces, it is according to rank)and when you reach that age you go. I would love them to raise the retirement age for the RN, but I can't see it happening.

You also need to consider the physical aspects of a job - I would not want to teach past 60, and I think some nurses would have problems going on longer with the physical demands of lifting.

The Armed Forces scheme has already been altered in 2005, so it is less generous for those who chose to move on to it. Those who stayed on the old scheme will eventually die off, so there are diminishing numbers there.

I have a problem with capping pensions in general; if an individual is saving for retirement and can afford large contributions to fund retirement, and not claim from the state, then good for them.

It's not just general nurses - I don't much fancy dealing with psychotic teenagers when I'm past 60!

Well teenagers might be stretching it.......17 yrs plus. Don't suppose police officers will want to work beyond 60 either.

I know nothing about the armed forces so cannot comment.
I do know several teachers/police/firemen/ who retired in their very early 50's. These people will live (hopefully!) into their 80/90s so will be retired for longer than they worked. Can our children & grandchildren afford to pay for this?

Scaryteacher an individual making large additional contributions to a public sector pension, ie buying additional years etc, will cost the state a fortune because the returns are so generous. It will probably cost the state between 24 to 28% of that individual's pay every year in contributions.

What I'd like is for the government to be transparent about their intentions wrt the pension so that I can make an informed decision about whether to stay in the NHS or bugger off to the private sector. I have a feeling though, that they'll ring in the changes in dribs and drabs.

They axed our final salary pension a couple of years ago.

nymphadora - are you in a private pension scheme?

No local gov one. I didn't pay in until 2 years ago & the terms changed not long before that.

Hmm that's harsh. I've been paying into mine for 7 years. I got a projection done recently. Will get another one done once the government announce the changes.

Well, you can't have something for nothing and at the moment public sector workers are taking out far more than they put in.

It'd be really great if that could continue, but we all know that public sector workers are just going to have to tighten their belts like the rest of us.

Not gonna rise to that one Captain

Most Gov dept closed their final salary pensions schemes to new entrants around 8 years ago - not something you read in the propoganda newspapers.

The average public sector pension is £4k a year (excluding high earners). Once you include high earners this princely sum rises to the dizzy heights of £6k per annum. Is that 'gold plated'? I don't think so.

I would suggest that people do some proper research and find out the facts about public sector pensions before coming in with speculation and rhetoric.

I'd also suggest to people in the private sector to be very very afraid, 1)public sector pensions and T & C have been seen as a benchmark for the private sector. Once these are annihilated by the Tories - what next? 2) if the public sector offers crap pay and crap conditions as well as the attitude that everyone who works there is an idle shit who shouldn't be paid in washers - who on earth is going to want to work there and what on earth are your public services going to look like?

Added to that the attack on the Public Sector is just the beginning - this government is doing a fine job of destroying any sense of society we have - setting private sector workers against public sector workers, working people against non working people, union members against union bosses.

Just remember - as you wade in - something that impacts your family and life may be the next thing on their hit list and who will be there to support you?

People coming into the Public sector won't get the very favourable pension deals that currently exist - but they will know that on entry, and will vote with their feet if they don't wish to enter the Public sector for that reason. So - it's supply and demand - if there is a shortage of Public sector workers, then the terms and conditions will improve.

As a long standing teacher, my pension is damn good already. I think it's quite likely that we may be expected to pay more into our pensions in future, which is ok, not great, but just one of those things. I;ve paid AVCs to buy additional years and also have property as a long term investment so it doesn't bother me overly much. Let's face it - if it gets bad for the Public sector then god help the Private!!

Bessie - I said in general I had a problem with capping - that means private sector as well; I understand that the ability to pay into these on a large contribution basis may be capped as well.

Captain - a two year pay freeze looks like belt tightening from where I'm sitting, especially when allied to higher rent for MQs, and possibly a greater restriction on pay for pensions.

The point about the public sector taking out more than they put in - well, what has happened to all the contributions that have been made? Have they been invested for pensions? Nope, HMG has chosen to use them for something else, so why have a pop at the public sector?

I would hardly call working your guts out for years and years and contributing to your own pension for years and years "something for nothing" actually. I mean unless you call, being hit, shouted at, possibly violently assulted [as many police, nurses, teachers are] etc 'nothing'. I am just wondering how many sectors in the private sector experience this regularily and still trott off back to work with a smile the next day? I am just making the point, that public workers do put up with quite a bit during their careers and it is not as easy as some may think!

Should the issue in fact be that there should be pressure on those private employers to look after their workers in retirement and help out with those pensions? Further cuts to pensions will not mean more pension for those in the private sector. It just means more OAP's will be reliant on benefits, more OAP's likely to be living in poverty-surely?

If you read beyond the hype about nurses and teachers pensions for example, you will see many changes that have taken place in future pensions already. The average teachers pension is actually less than £10k per year...it is not mega bucks. I understand that the majority of public workers pensions are less than £5k per year. It is not comparable to say a highly paid public sector worker, but no distinction seems to be being made anywhere.

I would also like to point out that a lot of public sector workers have paid for their own education to enable them to do those jobs and spend years paying that money back. They also keep the country going and do the jobs that could not possibly all be done in the private sector.

Scareyteacher, I don't know what you have heard, but I understand that to remain on the same "deal" a Cdr might be expected to put in £300 per month. We hadn't factored that into recent financial plans...

The thing is though Violet many people have worked for many years in the public sector and have planned for their retirement on the basis of - what they rightly believed - to be their terms and conditions.

Another thing to be aware of is that - for examle - many people were TUPEd over to Private sector firms and chose to retain their public sector T & Cs - this has meant they have lost out on payrises compared to colleagues who opted for the new employers T & C's, but have done so on the understanding that if they were to be made redundant or when they retire they would be ok. Now it looks like years of low (by comparison) pay will be rewarded by slashed Terms and Conditions - how is that acceptable?

This Government is now going to change the law to get around a High Court ruling on the Civil Service Compensation Scheme - the last government imposed changes which were ruled unlawful not once but twice by the High Court.

Does anybody -regardless of where you work - consider it to be moral or acceptable for our government to avoid their liabilities by changing the law? As I have said this is just the start of it and sets a precedent - and I think everyone should be very concerned whatever your politics - what is happening now is morally wrong.

I think the nhs final salary scheme was closed in 2008.

The raised age retirement age had to come in really didn't it?(Sobs quietly onto fob watch)

I get really narked off with threads such as the one i saw earlier rejoicing about jobs in the public sector not being advertised in the Grauniad.

I really wish the op of that thread could work shadow me for a day and see how understaffed we all are at the current time.All of the bullshit targets and paperwork and associated shiteola.I am sure it is the same for teachers,police etc.

Good post lego

oh yes and forgot to mention...nurses and teachers, social workers, police etc-they don't all switch off at 5 o'clock pm and stop thinking about work. They spend their lives, evenings, weekends, worrying about their patients, their school children, their victims etc. They do, in my opinion deserve a break in their twilight years surely! If anyone has contributed to society-they have.

"unless you call, being hit, shouted at, possibly violently assulted [as many police, nurses, teachers are] etc 'nothing'"

BUT, for every front line worker who faces these challenges, how many bureauocrats are there who during the whole of their working lives never so much as talk to the end user of their services? Let alone have to deal with any of the problems or stresses caused by their policies?

thank you pocketmonster [feel so cross about his], yours too