England flag over No10 during the world cup??

[weegiemum]

What do people think of this: England Flag

10 Downing Street is the Prime Ministerial residence for the UK, not England.

Should everyone be shouting "Come on England" and if so, why? If not, why not?

"I have noticed that causual racism is quite common in parts of the UK when it is anti-English"

. Clearly you have never been Scottish in England then. Or Welsh. Cos the English, they're never racist, oh no!

I didn't say that

but have you ever tried wearing a Saltire in Oxford Street? No one minds. If anyone did they would be thought a nutter.

sorry should have added

in England, you don't normally hear people say things equivalent to "Scotland have qualified for the World Cup so I'll support whoever they're playing against"

But you hear Scots casually say "England vs. Argentina? I'll support Argentina. Anyone but England"

tell me I'm wrong

I didn't even know No 10 had a flag pole!
What normally flies there?

England have reached the finals and the other home teams haven't. For what it's worth I, my teenage sons, and every other English person I know WOULD support the other home nations if they were there and England wasn't.

I consider my self very very english but have nothing in common with DC. It's all to do with where you're born and who your parents are.....it's not something we choose FFS!

Why shouldn't St George's flag fly over Downing St....It is in England!

pmsl at scotland rooting for England.

But England fans will support "anyone but Argentina" or "whoever is playing Germany", won't they? Because England fans regard Argentina, or Germany, as 'the enemy'.

Its all a long way in the past now, the things that make England 'the enemy' in Scotland, but there are still a lot of Scottish people who do not want us to be part of the UK. The SNP run our government, for a start! Personally, I am British only be default - if I could have a Scottish passport I would!

So why, why should I support England? They are not a 'home' nation to me - Scotland is my home. Everywhere else is not. England is not.

Its a minority nation thing, I think. Just look at the thread about the Welsh mum who is currently not choosing to introduce English to her ds. England, tbh, couldn't care less about Scotland. But when you are a nation of 5 million people bordering (and being ruled by, basically) a nation of 50 million people, you can get a bit stroppy sometimes. The Union Jack being used to represent England (hey, the blue in it is from the Saltire!). The saying of "England" on the news, especially the sports news, to mean the UK.

Yes, we are marginal. That is not a reason to marginalise us.

And I think DC choosing to fly the England flag like this just underscores for Scottish people the fact that we didn't vote him in, many don't regard him as "our" PM, that he is a posh English snob and only concerned about his own country. Not saying that's true, its just the perception a lot of people have (especially in Glasgow, where I live).

I seriously doubt that if only Scotland had qualified ( like that was ever going to happen!!) that the Saltire woudl have flown over No 10 for a month. It just wouldn't have happened!

I'm old enough to remember when England did not qualify for the world cup and Scotland did.

I can testify that everyone I knew supported Scotland - and I don't just mean that they gave them a half-arsed cheer, I mean they really supported them and some cried when they were knocked out.

I realise it's different if you're Scottish, Welsh or Irish and asked to support England - most of the time that's just not going to happen (Andy Murray famously refused to support England iirc)

As to the flag - I am no fan of DC but I do think this is a good idea, if slightly misguided if he thinks that all the Scottish, Welsh or Irish MPs are going to jump up and say "oh, England, yes, never thought of supporting them, let's get behind Fabio and cheer 'our' boys on!"

I also think (hope) that if one of the other home nations had qualified then that or those flags would also be flying proudly over number 10.

And they're home nations because together they make up our home of Britain.

I didn't vote for DC weegie. I did vote for TB. Did I vote for posh Scothish snob?

The opinion on DC is not mine - I'm just saying what I hear in conversation in Glasgow - DC not popular here (not that Blair was).

I think that you will find that a lot of Scots/Welsh people (don't think NI is the same, my husband is from Belfast) are only British because they have no choice. I do not regard myself as "British" at all - I am Scottish. Britain is not my home, Scotland is.

I know there are people who find this hard to understand, but I have a very clear sense of identity and it's Scottish. I'm not sure why that is such a problem for people.

The England manger is Italian, I think, Riven. The team all have to be English though - or at least "English Enough".

I don't want to be accused of being a vanishing OP, but I am going to work now (teaching English, actually!) and will not be back till late afternoon. SO will see you then!

I remember cheering Scotland on too squonk.
I still would if England were not playing. But I do think things are slowly changing. Even 10 years ago it was rare to see the cross of St George...it was always the union flag. Flags are everywhere now and it's not just because of the football. The England flag can be seen on public buildings, and even private homes have flag poles. DS age 17, 14 & 13 have even suggested we get a flag pole!

And DC does make a good point about reclaiming the flag of St George from those who have used it for not so good reasons...

It is fine to have your own sense of identity (Something I am battling with being a Scot living in England) but we are merely talking about cheering on another country with the United Kingdom - I don't understand why people can't just support other countries within the UK? The country has enough issues as it is which are impacting upon people's lives so surely a spell of good fun and camaraderie is a welcome break?! No?

I don't see the problem. Only England qualified.

If scotland wales or ireland had too, and he was then still saying he would fly the england flag that would be a terrible thing.

But as it is - no. not a problem at all.

It's a good thing - take back the flag from the nutters!

I would expect that the scottish, welsh, irish flags will also be flown as appropriate.

Lol, just seen this. I think he must be doing it in response to this survey;

"The EU are currently carrying out the
largest ever study of human penis size. The English leg of the survey runs until July 11th 2010.
Until July 11th, English men with an erect penis of less than 75mm (3") are asked to display from their vehicle, a white flag bearing a red cross.
To help with the survey,......the flags are currently available from garages and supermarkets all over the country."

Chil - I await the "Alex Salmond chews off his own foot" headlines any time now

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6875372.ece

I agree with Weegie. It is not about hating English people, or anyone else. It is just that I am Scotiish, not English, not Irish, not French. I don't feel any special affiliation to England.

Weegiemum, you know it amazes me how my fellow Scots are always starting these threads. For people who keep proclaiming their national identity so loud and proud all over the place, many Scots seem to have one hell of a preoccupation with England.

And if I hear one more Scot say "Oh, it'd be terrible if England won the World Cup because then we'll never hear the last of it. It's like 1966, they're always going on about it - they're sooo arrogant!" I might just snap and stuff a bunch of very sour grapes right up their kilt.

I'm a Scot who has lived in England for over 15 years, and I have never heard anyone other than John Motson or Clive Tyldesley even mention 1966. Seems to be more of a hot topic in Scotland these days...

I also do not accept the argument that the Scots are always having English media coverage of the football (or anything else) foisted on them. Between BBC Scotland, STV, Grampian, Radio Scotland/Forth/Clyde/Tay etc, The Daily Record, The Scotsman (named in case you forgot where you were for a second), The Herald, Scotland on Sunday (another reminder-title!), to name just a few, you can virtually ignore England and its news most of the time, should you so choose. Scotland undoubtedly has its own news and its own preoccupations. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't have it both ways and keep moaning on about the English bias in the English media too.

Now this is not an ad feminem attack on Weegiemum, and I know there'll be other Scots reading this who will think "Traitor, parcel o' rogues, sucking up to the English", etc. If so, tell me this:

What's your problem with the flag of the only 'home nation' that has qualified for the World Cup hanging over Downing Street?

Or maybe you could try one of these questions instead:

Know many English people?
Have many English friends, do you?
Ever tried living in England?
Lived anywhere other than Scotland?

I am so sick of being embarrassed by the ungracious, self-satisfied, parochial, self-pitying attitudes that seem more and more prevalent in Scotland whenever I go back there. I used to love the place, but I'd trade my nationality now if I could.

FWIW, I grew up in the Central Belt in the 1980s and early 1990s. I've seen plenty of what Thatcherite politics and unrepresentative, out-of-control government from afar can do, and I don't need any sodding history lessons. There used to be a shared understanding on the Left that working class Scots and English people had a common interest and had both been exploited by the scions of Fettes, Gordonstoun and Eton alike. This sort of thinking now seems largely to have gone out of the window north of the border, replaced by one big money-grab/power-grab/vindictive binge on the politics of revenge.

I'm sorry to hear of anyone who has had a bad experience as a non-English person in England, but I can only report that I have been made welcome and treated with total respect the whole time I have lived here (have lived in South-West, South-East, now Midlands).

Oh, and yes, when I was young and stupid I used to laugh and cheer when England got beaten at football, 'cause that's what you do when you're Scottish, isn't it? My English DH and friends continued to be nice to me despite this. They joked with me, were tolerant and cut me some slack. They didn't keep reminding me that they were English and ramming down my throat how superior their English culture/football/politics/way of life was. They didn't even talk about being English, and they still don't. (I appreciate that my fellow Scots may find this hard to credit, so far removed is it from their very specific and unmatchably Scottish experience of Scottishness). Some might argue that as the 'dominant nation' the English don't need that kind of validation. Perhaps that's true, but these days I am more inclined to think that they didn't/don't do this because that kind of behaviour is actually fucking rude, unpleasant, tedious and is not how a mature and self-confident nation behaves.

Ok. I feel better now. Goodnight.

P.S. I hope England win the World Cup. Scotland isn't my home any more - England is.