8 year old girl admits lying about rape allegations

[FlyMeToDunoon]

I felt really sad about this for more than one reason.
here

but then again its still rape isn't it? (because of the girls age).

It is unclear from the article whether there was any sexual intercourse.

My DCs didn't know the meaning of the word 'rape' at 8.

All sad for many many reasons.

If three children of roughly the same age pull down their own pants/knickers and show each other their genitals that can hardly be construed as rape.

The rape allegations don't have to be due to unnatural savviness on part of the dd: they could have arisen from leading questions by her mother which she was then led to repeat. We don't actually know what words she used for her accusations.

If you remember, this is how some of those infamous sex trials of the 90s happened: hysterical mothers asking leading questions from their children until the children were convinced something dreadful had happened.

True.

From what I can recall, many of the false sex abuse trials both here and in the US were the consequence of people (social workers, paediatricians, police departments, as well as parents) responding inappropriately to alleged or even non-existent incidents.

In this particular case, I wonder what it was that made the CPS feel it was appropriate to bring a criminal prosecution.

Nevertheless, there are children in this case who need careful and sensitive support, whatever the reality of the incident or the outcome of the trial.

It would still be rape...she cannot consent at 8 years old. Rape also now covers putting the penis in the mouth also.

I don't understand why people are saying it's still rape. Surely children showing each other their genitals is a part of normal development and is quite innocent. I know I did with the boy next door when I was 8. I don't see why people equate that with a serious crime.

those poor children.

those poor boys. Imagine having to defend yourself against such horrific accusations at an age when you should not even know what it is?

for all those concerned.

scurry but that did not happen.

helenrosie we played kiss chase at that age, and 'Drs and Nurses' which was, from what I recall mostly 'you show me yours and I will show you mine' at around 7 or so. I also remember my first snog being at 10, for a bet, absolutely no sexual desire in it whatsoever, all purely innocent experimentation, girls and boys, no one party coercing the other. Never felt threatened that I recall, it was fun.

If any penetration by a penis has taken place by a penis,HelenRosie, then it is still rape. Because she is 8yrs she can never consent to any sexual activity. It sounds as if it was declared that a lot more than showing each other genitals had happened for this to get to court originally.

All of them. I feel sorry for all three of them. They have all been let down

lady yes, all three. I agree.

Scurry: The article states that the girl made up the allegations though, and the medical reports show no injuries/bruising to her vagina so unless you have another article that states otherwise, I'm going by the information here that no rape took place.

That is what is being disclosed in court now. CPS must have thought there was enough material to show a rape had taken place and that it was in the public interest to bring it before the court, otherwise no one would have gone to court.In court however, the girl is now saying she made it up...this is new information.

I don't understand why you are all talking about rape. there is no rape. or so it would 'appear' from the limited information in the article, so far.
so FAR, it would appear, that she accused them of rape and it now transpires thta the only thing that happened was that genitals were shown. and she did that willingly, i.e he didn't do it to her, she showed them herself.

or so i read the info. at the moment. that is all we know.

whats marne talking about rape for ?

i must be missing something.

She's 8 years old. A nice lady asked her if she'd said something to her mother because she didn't want to get into trouble. She wants to please the nice lady, so she agrees. If the nice lady asked ehr something else which was the opposite, she'd agree with that.

Suggestive questioning of children is notorious for giving you the wrong answer.

However, the lack of injuries to her vagina does seem to indicate a lack of rape - unless the penises were in the mouth and that is why the rape case was brought.

Marne is talking about rape because if you have sex with a child under 16, then there cannot be consent (unless you yourself are only one or two years older than her), therefore it is rape. In this case though, because the boys are so near to her in age, I think it would come under the "don't prosecute because we don't want to criminalise boys who have sex with their consenting under-age girlfriends" rule.

There must be something more to this. The CPS would not bring a case based on a vague allegation, right?? Surely she was questioned extensively previously and had a consistent story?

there is somthing so terribly sad about this.

chandellina Thu 13-May-10 21:15:32
"There must be something more to this. The CPS would not bring a case based on a vague allegation, right?? Surely she was questioned extensively previously and had a consistent story?"

Don't you remember the Shieldfield case? What happened there was that some hysterical mothers got convinced that their children had been abused at the nursery (after reading in the papers about a different abuse case involving young children and other adults). They started asking leading questions of their children, which meant they got answers they interpreted as abuse, they then reported their children had claimed to have been abused, SWs and police came in and asked more leading questions which led to further "evidence". Iiirc it was subsequently proved that some of those children had not attended the nursery at the time when the adults who had supposedly abused them were working there. But if you ask leading questions of a young child with your mind already made up, you will get answers that you can interpret as meaning what you think.

If the girl and the boys had been showing each other their genitals, and the mum then got terribly upset asking questions about what the boys had done to her, do you suppose the little girl would have volunteered the information that actually, I did it too? Of course not. She will have gauged from her mother's reaction that this was something dreadful and will have wanted to push the blame onto somebody else. And if the mother then asked "did they do this? did they do that?" isn't it quite likely that she will have got carried away and said yes. And next time she was questioned, she will have repeated whatever she had agreed to. By the way she was being questioned the little girl will eventually have worked out what she was supposed to answer to keep the adults happy.

Quite Cory. And unfortunately, this little girl has been asked leading questions from both "sides" - those who are determined she has been raped, and those who are determined she hasn't been.

And of course, the boys involved will also have been asked leading questions as well and although they are a couple of years older than her and our legal system in its wisdom considers them criminally responsible, one assumes that they too will not have the maturity to have answered leading questions accurately.

We have quite a unique legal system in that a defence barrister was allowed to crss-examine such a young witness.

Children of this age are not competant witnesses. They do not have the capacity to understand the language or repercussions of things they say.

Given that most of this girl's answers were 'yeah' it sounds as though she just wanted to say anything to get the barrister to stop asking her questions.

Children learn to give adults the answers they (the adults) want which can and does result in inaccurate testimony.

I dont think we can ever be sure what happened, regardless of what any of the children say.

However, i dont see what the solution could be. if we dont allow young children to testify then it will be very difficult to prosecute child abusers.

agree with cory.
this appears to have been handled very badly. what about the poor boys who seem to have been accused of rape on what appears to be very spurious grounds. pyschological damage will have been done to them.