Jack Tweed found not guilty of rape

[Ponders]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8644486.stm

hmm. Did he just get the benefit of the doubt do you think - his word against hers?

Or "she knew what he's like when she chose to go back to his house"?hmm

Will she now be named?

These cases are horrible - really hard to determine who's guilty - maybe we should adopt the Scottish Not Proven verdict.

(put this in sleb twaddle before & then realised hardly anybody reads that!)

Yes Dittany it does but apart from the fact tehre's a lot thatc an't be said for fear of ebing seen toa ccuse Mr Tweed (actuallY win doulnt say it as I have no evidence either way but I get the impression soem would want to) it's

A) A shame it's in a thread under his tname so many people will go- yuck him and miss it;

and B) the argument of rape convictions generally will keep getting messed up with this case, whcih is a shame when it is a topic of such iniversal value and import

Modern juries are not always representative though- they are generally made up of the elderly, the unemployed or middle class workers who couldn't manage to get out of it!

I agree that there is a major confusion here between the Jack Tweed case and cases where very drunk girls are taken advantage of and raped.

I think that the girl in Tweeds case isn't claiming she was too drunk to consent, she claimed he raped her and that she didn't fight it. (not passing judgement on this-I understand fear doesn't different things to different people.).

However, is everyone on this thread saying they do not think a woman could make up a rape?even if it went to trial? Because I can tell you you are wrong-I have seen it happen, once getting almost to trial before the accuser was found out and once after trial when the man was found not guilty and the woman admitted to making it up. Can people really say that they don't think this ever happens?and perhaps happened in this case? Where a jury took only 15 minutes to decide not guilty?

I strongly beleive that in order to tackle the issue of low conviction rates we need to tackle the issue of false rape allegations! Obviously this would need to be done very sympathetically but we really need to redress the whole rape prosecution process.

I don't believe 'woman make up rapes' is something fed to us to let men get away with rape. I think until we can acknowledge and tackle and try to stamp out false rape allegations then we will always be faced with this 'they won't believe you mentality!'

what I'm trying to say-not very well-is if woman who DID make up rape claims were prosecuted somehow,then less woman would report false rape claims and therefore there would be much fewer cases to say,yeah but I don't believe her-look at so and so!

People are regularly punished for wasting police time or making false allegations! I think the fact that rape is not treated the same does lead to men and some woman saying 'but woman can make it up and get away with it and this probably happens losds'!

Again,I am talking about cases very similar to the Tweed case,anything else needs further consideration and my thoughts on all different situations where rape happens would truly require a novel!

Prosecuting women who make false allegations does not mean fewer false reports,it means fewer reports from anypne because of the perception that they will not be believed. People are not regularly punished for wasting police time anyway

Agree swc about force, fear or fraud and think you're right about the mind set being Victorian. When rape is reported, frequently there is the preface 'date' before 'rape' that is supposed to qualify the crime; as if it's only rape if a stranger jumps out from behind the bushes.

I wasn't saying that people should not be prosecuted for false reporting - the fact is people do not report early enough,if at all for fear of not being believed (especially if that is all they are read about in the press, which reinforces that view)

Interestingly, the rate of false accusations is very similar to the rate of false accusations of other crimes; burglary, common assault, etc. And really, a lot of those crimes are a matter of he said/he said too ('I was just borrowing it! He said I could!'/'Nah, he started it, I was just defending myself').

I've never heard anyone say that those crimes shouldn't be prosecuted because of the issue of false allegations. Ever.

Know the DM is a bleugh paper but I do read it and the comments (and am often horrified). According to many of the comments on rape (not just the Tweed case), many believe that if the conviction rates are low, then the women are obviously lying. More worryingly, that if these women are lying then they should be prosecuted. Just hope this is a DM readers perspective and not one held by wider society.

It's a pretty widely held view. Look at some of the comments on here. Again, have you ever heard any commentary ever about false accusations in other types of criminal act?

Its intresting that everyone is assuming he did rape her. he is vile, I agree. But noone was there, and we have to assume that the court of law came to the right decision.

I agree with Spero, there are some very grey areas here

I had a experience agred 20 that left me very shaken. I did not cry "rape". I did however decide to curb my drinking and watch the situations I got myself into.

I am not comparing myself to this case as I have NO IDEA what happended, but everyone needs to take responsibility.

I think that they are grey areas, women get to a certain point and then say "uh oh" and sometimes, due to alcolhol/drugs its all gone a bit too far. And after the women feel very very shit indeed. I have seen this happen to a few people.

I am NOT referring to this case as I dont know what happened

Dittany, how do you know all this? I think it's vile that this level of information is in the public domain, just vile

I feel very sorry for the girl, and I am not inferring she is a malicious liar.

I do have some faith though that if they dragged her into a room and brutally rapoed her, the jury would have seen that and charged them. JT is NOT popular so for him to have got off, well I am assuming it was spurious TBH

why do I feel sorry for the girl? err to go through ther whole case must have been humiliating for her, just awful. I have no doubts she regretted it, enormously. But whoever told her she coulkd charge for rape, misadvised her.

But, unfortunately (and I am just going on what I know) she was so frozen with fear that she did not protest, at all

How the fuck were they supposed to know????

she kissed them, she did whatever to them, if she does that and does not say anything, how would they know?

Just because I happen to think this about this case, its does not make me a "pro rapist".

dittany dont take your anger out on me

I think him and his mate are vile vile little shits

But if someone to all extents and purposes seems to be participating in consensual sex, how can you uphold a rape claim?? thats my question and you dont seem to be able to answer it.

This clearly why the case did not end in the way she desired

Its a nasty nasty story, and a rather sad cautionary tale

grow up Ditanny, waste of time talking on this topic. see ya