Fox hunting

[lucy123]

Fed up, need a stimulating debate....

So, on the one hand we have a gang of very scary country ladies who think that 1000s of jobs would be lost if hunting was banned. What nonsense - they should try going riding without a fox every now and then to save those jobs.

On the other hand we have a day's debate on the subject in parliament when there are many more pressing issues: in particular the little matter of manipulation of opinion over the Iraq war. Is this a diversion?

My feelings are similar to Enids - I just can't get worked up about this and I do think there are many, many far more important issues. In fact, it gets on my nerves that as a nation we seem far more concerned about the plight of animals than we are about refugees, starving children, the AIDS crisis in South Africa, world (and UK) poverty, GM food, governments lying to us and well, people in general actually. So not quite the row you were looking for Lucy but I do think the whole debate is a waste of parliament's time and energy. I don't care if people want to hunt foxes - let 'em. Is battery farming humane? No, but there isn't the same sort of uproar about it and calls for a ban since a) we don't see it unless we make a real effort to, b) It produces cheap food and lots of people would complain if meat cost more c) if it's for food rather than sport it's OK (according to some people). Yes, the whole debate could well work as a diversionary tactic since lots and lots of people care about the fox and it's very likely that not quite as many care about a postmortem on Iraq. Err, is that any good Lucy? Probably not, since I don't care enough to really argue my point

It is difficult to care about everything - to me the only foxes that I see are the ones that rip our bins to shreds or make us put yale locks on my daughter's bunny cage, they are just a nuisance and to me pest ridden vermin. Either way I really do not care!!

Agree about AIDs etc., most heart wrenching thing I have ever seen is programme about major drug co.s refusing to licence drugs used to treat AIDs in certain countries (Venezuela or Columbia I think) and only selling one kind - the most expensive kind, people were having to smuggle them in - risking tens of years in jail!! It is these sort of things that I would get up and go on a march for - to me foxes are way down the list and parliament should be using their time more constructively!!

If all I had to whinge about was the plight of foxes I would be a very happy lady!!

www - I agree really, but then I'm a town girl. I was asked to go hunt-sabbing once but didn't because, as you say, I don't really care enough.

I find the subject quite interesting though because of a) the hideousness of some of the supporters and the general class-war angle and b) the fact that so many city dwellers feel so strongly about it.

Having said that it annoys me intensly that many hunting supporters try to make out that it is all about town v. country. It isn't, it's about the remnants of the landed gentry (and a few others) v. everyone else.

One girl on the news the other night said fox-hunting is good because it is "selective" killing - well, great. I bet farmers will love the new super-foxes who result from this unnatural selection.

Maybe I'll think of another topic.

It's a barbaric act defending by a certain kind of people by picking a sensitive issue such as unemployment. What total gaaaarrbage! how the feck can people say that hunting down A fox with 100 dogs and 5 horses is a reasonable form of employment?? Who pays them? Then of course you have the dog breeders pleading poverty.... hmm....

And the argument about foxes being pests? So what? What about stoats, weasels and Pole cats? They kill our pets too. Golden Eagles have been known to hunt lambs..... should we all get dressed up in different coloured tailored coats depending on which 'pest' we are hunting down and ripping limb from limb?

There is absolutley NO reasonable defense of Fox Hunting.... so why bother even arguing about it. It's been banned in Scotland, and about time too!

Ooooo that felt good, I'm very hormonal. There may be far more important issues out there, but at the moment the issue on this thread is Fox Hunting and I just had to get tuppence worth in.

Oh I'm with www entirely. Really couldn't care less- remember getting very worked up at school (was quite anti then) 20 years ago, but no - I get far angrier about WMD, MMR, total lack of any services, SS, state of NHS, education system blah blah blah (you know - you've heard me ).

Do think the ban will just increase the gap betwen town and country. Townies don't bat an eyelid about eating some cheap piece of plastic wrapped meat from an animal raised and killed in the most appalling conditions, yet would be totally unable to wring a free range organic chicken's neck. Slight double standards methinks.

I do care about rural poverty, and the problems faced by the rural community- so I do have some sympathy with the pro-hunters, not becuase I'd want to do it myself, just because I don't care enough about a manky old fox to stamp it out. And banning fox hunting will have an effect on rural communitites.

I feel obliged as a country dweller to point out that the class issue in hunting is a real red herring. Our local hunt does have a few posh nobs with cash but the majority are local farmers/farmworkers and agricultural workers. The miners in Wales also used to have a hunt.

Still don't give a t*ss whether its banned or not but just thought I'd point that out.

I agree with Jimjams, the double standards are crazy - killing little foxes is terrible, mmm, pass the fat and water-injected chicken meat from a vile chicken farm please!

thanks for that Enid.

I am a bit prejudiced I suppose as I went to school with half of the Norfolk Young Farmers club (and disliked almost all of them). Didn't get many hunts round our way though, or perhaps I just never visited on the right days.

My point in any case was really that the majority of country dwellers either don't care or disagree with hunting - I added the class thing for effect really.

And spot on with the food! I wish I still had my chickens.

Yes, think you are right re: majority not caring. The trouble is that country dwellers really don't think that Tony Blair/the Labour government cares about them in any way. I speak as a committed Labour supporter, but I can see how most policy seems very much geared to towns and cities. It would be lovely if they could come up with something really positive to improve rural transport for example. Then maybe labour would have a chance of winning round here

My dh comes from a line of country folk, his parents own a farm in a wealthy area of Preston. They are very much anti-foxing, so I don't go along with the view that all country folk are pro-hunting. They have even banned fox hunts from taking place on their farm. And his mum also keeps free-range hens that have been attacked every now and then by foxes, but that is just nature. We don't hunt Heron for taking goldfish out of garden ponds do we? If the in-laws have any trouble with stray dogs or foxes causing trouble, they shoot them. They say they would prefer this than for the animal to be torn apart by a bunch of jumped-up snobs on horses and their hounds. In fact, around the village where they live, the hounds have done more damage than the foxes have!

My opinion is that fox-hunting is a pointless exercise that achieves nothing.

I'm so glad that other people care as little about this as I do. I don't understand why it's taking up valuable time and money. surely there are more important things the gvmt should be doing, like chasing Margaret Hodge with a pack of dogs, for example.

re fishing - if fish screamed when they were hooked and pulled out of the water, and went on moaning while they drowned in the air, how popular would it be?

Re Fishing again.... Fish are caught for us to eat. Pigs, cows etc scream when they are slaughtered, but none-the-less they are still slaughtered for our consumption. I totally agree with this.

Foxes are killed for sport and sport alone. There are more humane ways to get rid of them if they are becoming 'pests'.

I don't quite understand the fishing comparison. I enjoy fishing and cook the fish for my dp to eat. The fish is killed the second it is landed. The fish that are left to suffocate are caught by trawlers. This has nothing to do with sport or deliberately causing the suffering of an animal that will only have it's tail cut off and held up as a trophy!

@aloha

Actually I quite agree janh. If people had to kill their own chicken/lamb etc they would either a) all be vegetarian or b) not give a stuff about fox hunting.

I dont really care but the posh nobs who do it get on my nerves. Ban them I reckon...

Jimjams - what has killing lamb/chicken got to do with hunting animals for sport?? I don't get that!

I have worked on farms and have had to kill lambs. That doesn't change my view at all.

thats it m2t lamb murderer! It all makes sense now..

oh no no no I really really don't care enough about this to get into any sort of heated discussion on it. Had my heated discussion with the LEA already today- and in fact I propse a new sport LEA petty beaurocrat (sp?) hunting - yep it's just a sport (LEA hunting) and they deserve it those nasty little vermin.

It was a very broad generalisation m2t about people being happy to eat meat etc when they don't have to get their fingers dirty to do it, ie people being a little out of touch with reality. But as I said really don't care enough about this issue get heated about it.

Lol!

Since then I've never been able to eat lamb or even be in the same room as it cooks. I think it smells like the substitute milk we used to have to feed to orphaned or ill lambs. BLEURGH!

Doesn't stop me thinking that Fox Hunting should be banned and that it's important to do so.

Im in that new bloodsport jimjams

I meant in on it not in it-oh I give up

I don't think it's at all important whether fox hunting is banned or not. In fact I think they look rather nice in their pink coats.

M2T, I didn't mean the fishing industry, I meant the "sport" of fishing, angling, a bloke with a pole and a hook. (But even on a trawler a lot of silent screaming must go on before all the fish are dealt with.)

And, FWIW, I agree with jimjams - who was agreeing with me!. The first time I saw fish being chosen from a tank (in a foreign supermarket) and hit on the head, which at least is quick and hopefully painless, I imagined seeing a row of cows or pigs or lambs and choosing one of them to be hit on the head - etc - in front of me, for me. The meat and fish industries allow us to have the food we want while shielding us from the reality of what is done to the animals. If we had to cut the throats/slit the abdomens ourselves, how many of us could?

I still think that if fish screamed, angling as a sport wouldn't exist.

Oops, sorry, misread your post. If you kill your fish the moment they are landed that's lovely (?) but everybody doesn't, do they?