Bit of a Rant About the Term "Racist"

[NotQuiteCockney]

There's been a bit of a scrum with people being called racist here today (after the whole bombings thing). It's bugging me quite a bit.

There aren't two big categories of people in the world, a racist one (with the BNP, Hitler, etc in it) and a not-racist one (all the nice folks). Racism is a continuum. At one end, ok, there's the BNP, Hitler etc.

At the other end, the completely not-racist one? There's pretty much nobody. Small children, who see skin colour as a human characteristic, like ear size and finger length. Probably some SN folks. I honestly believe that nobody here is completely and utterly not-racist.

Why do I say that? Because we see skin colour (and other racial characteristics) as indicators of people's behaviour. I am racist. I try to control it, but I make generalisations, based on what I hear and see, and apply them, unfairly, to people based on their colour.

Some of these are innocuous. For example, I find Black men are more likely to help me carry a pram up and down tube stairs than white men (some don't). I would expect a South Asian person to be more likely to know about a good curry house (some won't). I would be surprised to meet an East Asian person who was Jewish (but I'm sure some are, why not?). But these views are still racist.

Yes, Black people are racist. As are White people and everyone else, all to varying degrees. And who people are racist about, and how much, varies so much that it doesn't really make sense to call someone racist - calling an opinion or an attitude racist is probably fairer, although also very incendiary.

No, I see your point. It's not equal opportunities when someone who has worked hard gets passed over by someone else because they are the right colour/gender.
I dont know the answer.

depends if you believe in positive discrimination or not. it is very contentious but i do believe it works: vis more women MPs, therefore more little girls think that they can be MPs and maybe one day issues that affect women and mothers will be much higher on the agenda (i would say that some changes are already taking place with regards to this).

I think positive discrimination should be used more sparingly thn it is though sophable, because it gets the backs up of other recruits/students/whatever and creates tension.

There are more women MPs now, but the govt have been using women only shortlists to force Blairite candidates onto constituencies where the popular candidates are leftwingers and male - there have been some almighty rows.

Likewise in organisations like the police, many feel aggreived that they had to wait however many years to get in, while non-white candidates get straight in. It is necessary in the case of the police, but i think they could be more tactful about it.

Flossam i think that is a "generation" attitude.

All this policy of diversity, and equal opps in recruitment can easily be misunderstood to mean we are now having to recruit in favour of basically any minority group.

But it isn't the case. Monitoring takes place to ensure discrimination isn't going on in recruitment for all parties, and also that the opportunity to create a diverse workforce will in itself be a postive step towards fighting racism/discrimination.

hello fran....

lol hello i just said the same on your other thread.

agree witn your post below.

wonder if those that get very het up about what they would call 'tokenism' get het up to the same extent about the fact that so many positions are all but closed to women and non-whites in many professions.

not saying that you can't disagree with positive discrimination for entirely sensible reasons btw but....

double negative, sorry, but you know what i mean?

Yes i know what you mean.

I used to get infuriated when Ofsted would inspect my nursery and they'd comment on the low numbers of children with SEN or from ethnic minorites we had attending. I used to feel like banging my head against a brick wall because we had a very long waiting list and simply offered places in order of the list. Had i gone down the list and picked out all children with ethnic backgrounds that would have been discrimination.

I now work in an entirely different role, one of my main aims is to identify possible clients from minority groups and find out why they don't use our services and how we can either change our services or add new services to ensure we are catering for all minority groups. And of course this research i'm carrying out is showing me how many other cultures simply don't get the same advice/information that your average white British can be given.
Before anyone jumps down my throat i am not saying anyone who isn't white doesn't get the same treatment.
Some examples of what i mean are refugee women who are too afraid to tell they are hiv positive for fear of being thrown out the country do not get the services they require for obvious reasons.
In some cultures women are often illiterate which means that they will not be able to read notices in hospitals and docs waiting rooms informing them of services available for them.

So i am not saying these different communities are being directly discriminated against. But there is indirect discrimination because there needs are not taken into account.

Simple cures - read things to them rather than hand them paper.
Let them know if they are hiv postive it will not mean they will be rejected.

These are only two tiny examples but hope you get the jist of what i'm saying.

And comparison in my two jobs how i now see why it is important to monitor staff teams, client bases. And then find out why certain groups may not be accessing services, if that is the case.

oooooooooo - I tried, I tried I REALLY did - but I have just one comment to make on this thread.

Black men DO have bigger willy's that white men (I and I say that with confidence and first hand knowledge )

having said that she sulks back off to products and member profiles

First hand knowledge of every black man and every white man, eh QoQ? You hussy.

Knew it wouldn't last, btw

LOL i wanted to say my experiences taught me the same QofQ but we can't assume its the same for everyone can we ?

Black men do, but no hussy, ex-nurse!!

And if you find me a black, white, Asian or any other man that minds me assuming he has a bigger willy I will reconsider

fran they are being directly discriminated against though as well as the more subtle stuff you're talking about.

also, for the record on this thread, i don't think there are many mners at all that are racists per se. but i think it's ok to say that someone's action or thought is racist. we all have them.

my experience would indicate the opposite. which is why i hold no truck at all with generalisations based on race. the big feet and hand thing works though. absolutely.

In my experience it's skinny men actually. Dunno what ds's ethnic origin is as very dark but his Dad adopted. But very, very skinny.

Quite big hands though! Average feet.

Maybe the only blokes who will let you look at their willy in daylight is one with a big willy? A self selected sample, shall we say?

PMSL

Sorry, DH's Dad, although I guess Ds's genetics too

peace

abt positive discrimination.

When you have sizable minorities, with which the existing police force has tussles all along, isn't it advisable to recruit from those minorities, and use them to keep the peace within their communities, and thuus to build trust?

After all, it is agreed that the existing police are more rigth wing, and even racist.

The Stephen Lawrence inquiry found the police to be institutionally racist. Equal op's only work, like you say Floss, if everyone is offered the same training and opportunities and it's been proven that they are not, that ethinic minorities face discrimination on the grounds of their skin colour all the time, and that this has impacted upon the prospects and expectations of communities for generations.

I think at the moment positive discrimination is more about the symbolic effects of diversity, like in the police for example, and to encourage others to come after them, to silence the voices of dissent. I support it but it is sometimes tricky to defend as it is discrimination but this time against the majority.

Individuals within that majority will feel outraged that they've passed over, but the service itself will never be short of this majority, in the case of the British police, young white men, on average. (Hope you can understand that, I'm being really sloppy here.)

Based on this historical perspective, a decision has to be made and positive discrimination says that this time the majority loose out and that for a short time, until things reach true parity, this is only fair. It's contentious sure, as it's asking white people to give up their universal priviledge and some don't like that.

Ohh, skinny men with big ones - yes! And boney hips sticking in places they shouldn't ow!

My research supports the "big ones" theory.

Do you think the skinny thing is an optical illusion? You know, no tummy in the way?

Hey,they said exactly the same thing about 'little' Jimmy Dean!

Hijack, sorry!

Can you all take a quick look at the thread 'petition against 'Islamic' terror' in the In the News forum and have a think about supporting it.
Thanks!

Off to bed now..!