Bit of a Rant About the Term "Racist"

[NotQuiteCockney]

There's been a bit of a scrum with people being called racist here today (after the whole bombings thing). It's bugging me quite a bit.

There aren't two big categories of people in the world, a racist one (with the BNP, Hitler, etc in it) and a not-racist one (all the nice folks). Racism is a continuum. At one end, ok, there's the BNP, Hitler etc.

At the other end, the completely not-racist one? There's pretty much nobody. Small children, who see skin colour as a human characteristic, like ear size and finger length. Probably some SN folks. I honestly believe that nobody here is completely and utterly not-racist.

Why do I say that? Because we see skin colour (and other racial characteristics) as indicators of people's behaviour. I am racist. I try to control it, but I make generalisations, based on what I hear and see, and apply them, unfairly, to people based on their colour.

Some of these are innocuous. For example, I find Black men are more likely to help me carry a pram up and down tube stairs than white men (some don't). I would expect a South Asian person to be more likely to know about a good curry house (some won't). I would be surprised to meet an East Asian person who was Jewish (but I'm sure some are, why not?). But these views are still racist.

Yes, Black people are racist. As are White people and everyone else, all to varying degrees. And who people are racist about, and how much, varies so much that it doesn't really make sense to call someone racist - calling an opinion or an attitude racist is probably fairer, although also very incendiary.

And IIRC by the end of the thread she was scared about the way her children will be treated once they leave home. That was really sad.

iirc she said that there was no or very little racism and that people who said there was were imasgining it.. Of course that's rubbish.
Later she did say it was based on her personal experience.

Yes, I am also scared for my kids.

That's very sad Hercules - and even sadder may well be justified.

I don't want to fall out with you - don't want to fall out with anyone but always find your posts interesting and thought-provoking. But I did find the posts directed that that MNer on that thread worrying and extreme. Didn't post at the time for fear of further inflaming the situation.

Actually I've just got a bit tearful over your fears for your children, bizarrely. I am so very sorry that the world may be so hard for them.

I was posting my experiences there of what I see. To me seeing racism is the norm not the extreme.

I wish I had the answer and I did post on that thread after reading the posters comments that I will reconsider moving away from where I live as I'd always assumed we were better off here.

In fact we are going to devon on holiday tomorrow and will look at house prices.

If people do live in an area where they experience no racism, that's great!

That's exactly what I thought was missing from the original thread - the recognition that it was a good thing that she hadn't experienced racism directed at her kids.

Think Devon's a bit pricey due to all the second-homers but hope you find an area where you'd be happy to live.

The most alarming examples of racism I have seem recently are when George W Bush talks about the sacrifices that have to be made for the 'war on terror'.

What he means is not sacrifes that the Americans or British have to make (this was before the recent bombings) but that the Iraqi's were to take the toll and already had taken the most of it anyway, but (I'm paraphrasing) 'it was worth it in the fight against terror'.

Iraqi lives are deemed to be worthless to GWB, and worth sacrificing for our gain. Hundreds and thousands of tragedies.

That's racist.

don't get me started on him monkey trousers

Quite right. Politicians like Blair are so holier than thou anti-racist, but they're quite happy to bomb to glory, foreign people in far away countries of which we know little. There is no way they'd find it acceptable for cities like Paris, Dallas or London to be bombed.

Couldn't agree more, notquitecockney. I've considered myself non racist since my boss said how glad she was we had a senior member of staff from an ethnic minority and I couldn't at first think who she meant That doesn't mean I don't expect most Germans to be rather formal or most of the French to be arrogant It does mean that faced with an individual from a different race I'm interested in them as a person and their race isn't the thing I think about first when they are mentioned.

hercules as a child I visited Devon with my family. We went to a shop where my sister couldn't understand the shopkeeper's broad Devon accent. He was so pleased he gave us the chocolate we wanted for free. He felt he hadn't been accepted in 20 years. He was white BTW. In rural areas adults often meet with initial suspicion if they are from the village down the road That doesn't mean they would harm strangers though.

Aar, Tatt, they're not local!

exactly, Caligula. And in days gone by - and not so far back in rural memories - you didn't know if you could trust strangers. They might tell the revenue about your smuggling. They might even be revenue staff The south coast was attacked at times by pirates. Being nervous of strangers was good for survival.

yes - making broad assumptions on the basis of culture is a different thing (although it can be offensive if you start to generalise too much).

Anyway it's the same in Norfolk in many villages (not the ones that have been completely taken over by commuters obviously), and very similar in Andalucia. In one village we lived in, it took 6 months of going to the local shop regularly before the man would even smile.

I don't know how relevant this is and after all that happened on the other thread yesterday that I should be posting it but anyway.

While I was a student I live in a student house with several other friends, in a heavily populated student area, where the majority of the houses had been brought by one comapany. Hence the handy man was in the area quite a lot.

One day, I was home on my own, the handy man came to fix some problem or another in our downstairs loo. I was up in the lounge, (the house was a 5 tier house if that makes sense), and looked down and saw a strange bloke in my hall way. I went downstairs and said to him, 'What you doing in my hallway?' He waved his hand at me dissmissively and said ' I want to talk to your handyman'. This got my back up and I pointed out that this was my house and he had not been invited in - he told me to 'Shut up'. I got very cross at this point and told him I did not want him there and he was very rude. He went absolutely nuts at me, telling me I was a racist, it was just because he was black, I would never have minded a complete stranger in my house otherwise.

Now, we have one of those blurry glass doors, I could not see of what race or creed this chap was, I could just see that he was not my handyman. He refused to listen to any of my reasoning, and I was so hurt to be accused of these things. In the end, I wrote him a letter explaning things from my POV - he would not give me chance to talk. He did a few weeks later, apologise to me.

The handyman later told me he had thought him very rude and had been trying to tell him to leave, he did not know him, he was trying to get the hm to do some work for him.

I find this sort of behaviour unnacceptable from anyone. I hate the way race was brought in to this when it blindingly was not the issue, it was his lack of manners and then blatent rudeness. I think all too often these days people are very quite to diagnose a situation or a person as rasist when it is not the case at all. This was recently the case in the Police too. I think this sort of situation is very unhealthy, and is discriminatory and predujice.

flossam - there are lots of people who have a chip on their shoulder about being in a minority - I used to know a woman who had to use a wheelchair some of the time and she used to whinge all the time about how she was discriminated against because of it (she wasn't - she was discriminated against because she was exceptionally irritating). Likewise there are people who cry racism/sexism/homophobia whenver anyhting happens to them.

However I think it's dangerous to read too much into that. Some people who have accused the police of racism are lying - in fact apparently ETA tell all of their members to claim abuse whenever they are arrested because it helps with recruitment. But other stories are true, there's no denying that.

SP, dp was telling me of a case recently where two PC's were accused of being rasist, and just basically suspended and cut off from all services. It turned out in court they were 'not' rasist and the Met had to pay out large amounts of compensation.

Again, I didn't explain myself very well in the original post did I? I have to say, I find Dp has become more right wing since he started in the police, not racist, but he thinks I am overly liberal. Difference in jobs I guess.

There are lots of well documented cases of the police acting in tremendously racist ways though flossam. There is racism in the police, you would agree surely? as in any large organisation especially one in which, certainly until recently, power has lain disproportionately with white men?

Both my sister and her dh were in the police for many years - the met - and both said racism is common amongst the police.

I really don't know what to think. DP's father is high up in one area of the police. He gets very cross by the fact that rather than promote people based on skill/knowldege, the police are trying to fill roles based on sex (ie more women) and ethnic minority. I don't know about this, but he should know and that is what he says is happening and I can't work out if that should be the case or not.

I think it is good that there are role models and people of different genders and race in such positions. I wish there were more non white teachers in my old school as it would be really good for the non white kids.

I do think that too - but then isn't it being racist to promote others just based on their colour, or sexist to promote based on their sex? I thought it should be 'equal' opportunities, as long as all are offered the same training and opportunities this should have naturally been the case anyway. Perhaps it is and FIL is just spouting cr*p!