Healthcare Reform in the USA

[CaveMum]

Last night President Obama's healthcare bill was passed.

Surely I am not the only person to be shocked at the level of vitriol being aimed at Obama and this Bill in the US?

I cannot get my head round the fact that people seem to think that healthcare for everyone is a bad thing!

I know the NHS is far from perfect, but at least everyone gets treatment. I've heard some of the downright lies being spouted in the US about the NHS : "People over 75 don't get treated" and of course the classic "All Brits have bad teeth", and I am appalled.

I'd be interested to hear how other people feel on this topic.

Welcome to the civilized wod America, we've been waiting for you.

This is exactly what I hate about these discussions, we become so self congratulatory about the NHS when we have no reason to at all. The truth is that both systems have good and bad points and the best thing would be if we could take the best parts of each.

'weird how they resist anything from a voted in Govt but are quite happy with private for profit companies dictating.'

I was thinking the exact same thing whilst painting DS's bedroom today, Riven. I thought, 'Government by big business. Isn't that called fascism?'

I am an American/British national who voted for Obama.

I'm the only one of my family here, all my family and most of my friends are back in the States.

I only know two who oppose healthcare reform entirely.

Most acknowledge some of form of it is very, very necessary.

Oh, and btw, UK, you should congratulate yourselves on your NHS at every given opportunity.

Because there's no way I'd go back to living with all that insurance shite again.

Thought about it. For about 24 hours.

Then remembered what a racket it is.

Riven you are a very wise woman - I wish I knew you in real life!

I have always been amazed that a 'civilised' country like the US doesn't have a health care system like ours. Very interesting to hear from those who have experience of the US system - it confims my beliefs that the people have to jump though hoops to get their insurance companies to pay for some treatments. It must be a complete nightmare if you have children with serious on going health problems.

Jamie Oliver in his last programme in America was shocked to find someone had to sell their house to fund their cancer treatment - treatment that would have been provided on the NHS here.

Hadn't thought about it being a 'race' issue but it looks like it is

Well done Obama.

Actualy my Dad's cancer treatment was not covered by the NHS and he sold his house and spent almost every penny of his life savings. His treatment was considered cutting edge and hadn't been approved by NICE too expensive, not cost effective, but was standard treatment in US.

Actualy my Dad's cancer treatment was not covered by the NHS and he sold his house and spent almost every penny of his life savings. His treatment was considered cutting edge and hadn't been approved by NICE too expensive, not cost effective, but was standard treatment in US.

whoops didn't mean to post twice.

'but was standard treatment in US.'

If you have insurance, that is. If not, you'll be selling up, too. And/or saddled with immense debt, which you can no longer declare bankrupcy for if you've got such an asset as a home.

And you won't be getting fully paid time off or sick pay from your employer or benefits, either.

Nope, a large number of people who get cancer work during treatment.

Or they go unpaid, because whilst federal law prevents them from being sacked for an illness like this, it doesn't require the employer to pay you for the time off.

And again, no welfare/benefits the way we have here.

Oh, and even if you do have insurance, you're still going to pay for that cancer treatment. Your deductible/excess and co-pay.

My uncle works for the federal government. Has great insurance.

Needed a triple bypass. Pretty standard stuff.

His share of the bill for hte procedure and aftercare?

$20,000.

Yeah, that's a great system. Holes big enough for over 44m people to fit through.

My folks are on Medicare because they are over 65.

They pay a load for the drugs they need to keep them alive.

They have loads of friends who eat value stuff because they have to pay for their medications.

Plenty of folks from my native state, Texas, make this type of run to Mexico. They find out which doctors to go to who will, for some extra dollars in cash, prescribe what they need in large amounts.

''This is what I was referring to earlier on. Rightly or wrongly he is dismissing any opposition to the bill as the people "just not understanding " what he is doing and a lot of them feel patropnised and ignored by this. They're saying we do understand and we don't want it.''

I don't know about that. I've listened to Republican politicians wittering on about socialism and totalarianism. Sarah Palin saying healthcare reform means death panels for the sick and elderly, and talk pundits like Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck talking complete bollocks about rationing and more death panels and more socialism. What reason is there to believe that Mr and Mrs Joe Six Pack are going to be any more informed then the politicians and media people who represent and speak for them?

Traffic for medical care isn't just one way from the US to canada there is a lot going the other way too. Social medicine there means that those with a cancer diagnosis can't even pay for a second opinion or for private treatment. At least in the UK if you need it and have the money you can get these things, there the only way is to commute from Candada to the US.

Funnily enough when my Dad couldn't get his treatment funded by the NHS he too bought his drugs from Canada and had them shipped over, it was cheaper than buying them in the UK. So US citizens aren't the only ones who have to make this choice.

I wonder what role the large news corporations have on American people's opinions. They are allowed to be incredibly partisan compared to our (certainly still quite flawed) media and therefore will represent the interests of rich companies. In the US public support of things like reducing carbon emissions in big demonstrations is not shown on some channels.
People are exposed to very poor news diets and I think this can make it difficult to have an informed opinion. Adverts by vested interests seem to be brilliant at terrfiying people - ie universal healthcare means you won't be able to get the right treatment for you.

blimey, you are absolutely right. I couldn't sleep last night after watching NBC's(excellent and informed) coverage and explanation of the basics of the bill. What stirred me up the most was seeing throngs of people hurling abuse at minority congressional members - one openly gay congressman was vitriolically insulted by the demonstrators as was a black congressman. It showed the trashy mentality of those opposed to the bill and was immediately followed by coverage of Rush Limbaugh (get that man a white hood and be done with it) swearing and demanding darkly that 'these people' be got rid of. Watch Fox News for five minutes - if you can bear it- and you begin to understand where the petty paranoias originate. So the new system may be flawed, but how can it possibly be any worse than the current system? In my smallish circle of acquaintances I know of two families who lost everything they had because of a sick child and insurance companies who refused cover. Healthcare is a right, not a privilege and you shouldn't have to choose between getting medical help for your child and feeding your family.

I think Obama, despite what mayorquimby says, managed to address the needs and desires of the majority of Americans despite a vocal and obnoxiously loud minority. Nasty, disrespectful and hateful rhetoric is not opposition worth engaging. Here's a good article about some thinking republicans' (almost an oxymoron, unfortunately) suggestions for future improvements.

"Healthcare is a right, not a privilege and you shouldn't have to choose between getting medical help for your child and feeding your family."

This is so true. And I hate to sound dreadful, but many of those in the states (at least the ones I know personally) that oppose the bill are wealthy and can easily afford good medical insurance. Those I know that support it are not well off and are struggling - they make just enough money that they don't qualify for financial assistance or free medical care, but not enough to afford decent medical insurance.

I agree with the Op I can't get my head around the fact that people seem to think healthcare for everyone is a bad thing.

Having read through the thread and not having known much about how American healthcare worked before, I am shocked that insurance companies can dictate so much to people about their dr's and medications.

I'm grateful for the NHS, I've never had a problem with them,touch wood, they took wonderful care of my mother and grandfather when they were dying. Yes you hear terrible stories about the NHS but at the end of the day at least you can be seen without worrying whether or not you have the money to pay upfront.

There's a terrific quote here on the BBC today from someone against the new bill, namely "All in all, this bill is a "Robin Hood" plan to rob the well-off to give to the have-nots"

Which is revealing since Robin Hood is traditionally portrayed as one of the good guys.

CaveMum - I am American and I live in Texas. I can promise you it cost much more than that to have a vaginal delivery without insurance. As a matter of fact - I am still in debt from it, and I had NO complications. Of course I had about a 40% deduction in costs because I was 'cash pay'.My epidural - I got told was $1200 - was actually closer to $2500. Talk about a surprise when I opened THAT bill - I assume because I needed the nurse to come back out and 'flush' me or whatever they do when you start to have feeling again.

My fiance broke his wrist - we are now about 10,000$ in debt from this - he actually went to the hospital because they thought he needed surgery and got told he could give them $6000 NOW or go home. He came home, and hopefully his wrist heals up fine without the surgery. We are $10000 in debt when he did NOT have surgery.

I must say that I am very ignorant on what this bill actually does, though - all that I have seen on the news is how it funds abortions and therefore is a BAD THING. Especially as I am pretty sure it does NOT do that, but that is a whole different debate. Hopefully it makes insurance affordable. I am terrified one of my children will get very sick, I just paid $100 yesterday for eye drops - not bad, I can do that, but that is just for eye drops because my 6 mo old had gross gunky eyes that weren't clearing up - what if she was actually very sick? I bought insurance when DD1 was a newborn - until I realized it had a set amount of times I could go to the Dr, didn't cover prescriptions, not birth control or... etc.. the list goes on. They covered so little that they gave you a list of what they WOULD pay for. .

I don't qualify for medicaid, either. I am that 'in between' person who isn't poor enough or rich enough.

CliffBarnsby I am very sorry to hear of your situation. It just goes to demonstrate that even "basic" medical issues can get people into debt very quickly.

Grumpyoldhorsewoman (loving the name btw) I heard about the abuse being hurled around in Congress - one article I read said that the N-word was shouted 15 times at one black congressman. Why weren't these people arrested?!

I don't object to people debating the matter in the US, of course that is the right thing to do.I also agree that the NHS is far from perfect, but I do get angry when people quote random statistics or downright lies to fit their own agenda.

Honestly, half of America must think we don't have elderly people in this country as the anti-healthcare people have indicated that no one over 75 gets any NHS treatment!

Honestly, you wouldn't believe the things people believe. DPs brother's girlfriend (got that?) said to us that her family hate people on Medicare because they had a new cell phone (I believe said person is a dentist?) and so are clearly lazy and sapping off the government. Obviously affording a cell phone meansyou have thousands at your disposal . My own mother thinks they will let my father die (he has diabetes).

Yes, I think it is very basic things that get us in trouble, too. I truly didn't realize how much debt a brokenwrist would cause- because it is your wristand where he broke it meant he hadto go to an orthopedic surgeon. Little things like that, or me needing that flush with my epidural quickly escalate costs.

Was watching "Extreme Home Makeover" the other day. For those who have not seen it this ABC networked show takes a team of people into a family home and makes it over to improve their lives. Often these families have been struck down by life threatening illness and or disability in their lives.

One family showed the main presenter their medical bills for their daughter who was undergoing treatment for a rare blood disorder. These bills were in the thousands (one bill was for $12500 payment due now) and they could simply not afford this.

It does not surprise me at all the 70% of all bankrupcies in the US are primarily due to the sky high cost of medical bills. Anything that changes that statistic has to be a good thing.

For those of you still of the opinion that President Obama pushed this through ignoring citizen opinion, here's more evidence to the contrary. An interesting piece (related to a previous link) from a GOP policy maker on how the anti-healthcare sentiment was manufactured, and how the GOP made a strategic decision to block whatever the Democrats proposed, regardless of the actual policy, in the hopes of political gain.

'all that I have seen on the news is how it funds abortions and therefore is a BAD THING.'

It doesn't! That's a total lie!

I'm from Texas, too, although I moved to the UK via Boulder, CO, over 8 years ago.

I have yet to have gone back to America, although we are visiting family in Houston next week.

I'm preparing for a major culture shock.

I had a bankrupcy from no insurance, and that was back before the law changed and now it's nigh on impossible to get bankrupcy for medical debt.

'DPs brother's girlfriend (got that?) said to us that her family hate people on Medicare because they had a new cell phone (I believe said person is a dentist?) and so are clearly lazy and sapping off the government.'

My parents are on Medicare. Not because they couldn't afford insurance but because NO ONE will insure people over 65.

And I mean no one.

You can get supplemental insurance to help pay for drugs, which is good because they need them, but you can't get a medical insurer over 65 because you go on Medicare.

Even if you're still employed, most employer-sponsored insurances will drop you past 65 when you become eligible for Medicare.

In fact, my dad made a bartender in CO fall out laughing once. He went to the bar to get us all a round of drinks and the bartender asked for ID, so he pulled out his Medicare card, which of course has the bearer's photo on it. The guy just started laughing and gave him a freebie.