Healthcare Reform in the USA

[CaveMum]

Last night President Obama's healthcare bill was passed.

Surely I am not the only person to be shocked at the level of vitriol being aimed at Obama and this Bill in the US?

I cannot get my head round the fact that people seem to think that healthcare for everyone is a bad thing!

I know the NHS is far from perfect, but at least everyone gets treatment. I've heard some of the downright lies being spouted in the US about the NHS : "People over 75 don't get treated" and of course the classic "All Brits have bad teeth", and I am appalled.

I'd be interested to hear how other people feel on this topic.

Welcome to the civilized wod America, we've been waiting for you.

I do find the number of doctor appts and blood tests during pregnancy in the US intersting - I think I only saw a GP 2-3 times - do they not do MW appts in the US?

5 blood tests though? Blood test for pregnancy? surely you can just pee on a stick?

"5 blood tests though? Blood test for pregnancy? surely you can just pee on a stick?"

In my area there are three blood tests and they've just changed it so there are four as they're now doing an extra GTT.

So five doesn't seem completely unreasonable...

Perhaps they have more appointments so that the doctor can make more money??!!!

A friend of mine made the following comment on this subject:

"There was this guy called Jesus, you may have heard of him. He thought it was a really good idea to look after the sick and the poor. Is America no longer a Christian nation?"

Bloody hell Riven!

Badger - oh, fair enough. I only had 2 blood tests, plus one for the nuchal scan, so 5 seemed excessive.

CaveMum - great quote

"Badger - oh, fair enough. I only had 2 blood tests, plus one for the nuchal scan, so 5 seemed excessive."

Five is only two more than the three you had, so it's not that different.

I guess that it varies a lot around this country, I've no idea if there's any "standard".

I'm also not sure if we had extra bloods done because the first batch showed up a slight problem so maybe the actual "standard" is less than my experience.

Don't they have annual pap smears in the US as well? Is that really necessary?

I have followed the whole debate on CNBC every day for about the last year and literally been open mouthed watching US senators and congressmen argue that not everyone should be entitled to healthcare because it would be too expensive.

What the US has failed to get to grips with in this whole legislatve process is the massive costs imposed on the healthcare insurance system by litigation and th elocal monopoly power of state insurers. A very large chunk of healthcare costs in the US are gobbled up by legal costs and customers get gouged by insurers. If they had taken steps to control the legalcost sand monopoly power of insurers by allowing peopleto shop around then the whole arguement that it was too expensive to offer universal healthcare would have been defused.

I just do not understand how anyone can think it is fair that someone who losses their job and their health insurance and then gets ill effectiely loses their right to healthcare for ever as insurance companies will not cover pre-existing conditions.

Madness and barbaric.

"I just do not understand how anyone can think it is fair that someone who losses their job and their health insurance and then gets ill effectiely loses their right to healthcare for ever as insurance companies will not cover pre-existing conditions.

Madness and barbaric."

As I've already said talk to your grandparents.

"Free at point of use" healthcare is a pretty new thing here and I wouldn't call what we had before "madness and barbaric".

Personally I prefer what we have now and believe it is the right thing. However it took the devastating effects of WW2 upon this country to make it happen so it wasn't an easy or natural evolution.

One of the most spectacular US insurance company dodges that I've personally come across is that insurance wouldn't cover emergency procedures unless they are pre-approved.

The best thing about this bill is the regulation on the insurance industry. They now have to cover anybody who applies and pays, and if you don't appreciate that then you haven't been seeking insurance. Even your employer coverage wouldn't cover pre-exisiting . . .

The requirement that everyone have coverage and the support to help make this so are necessary to keep a healthy pool in the market, which is the only way to go if you want to keep the actual medical-paying industry free-market. The healthcare insurance industry is a public service industry, and it needs therefore to serve the public good, not the profit motive. A regulated but market driven healthcare industry is the best of both worlds.

Frankly, I don't understand the perspectives of TarheelMama and mayorquimby. This is government regulation of the healthcare industry, which is a far cry from government control of health care, surely you can discern the difference. And the nonsense that was flying around about "keeping government hands of medicare" and "death panels pulling the plug on grandma" do suggest that a significant portion of the people opposed to reform were indeed misinformed.

I'm not oppossed to the reform, I'm not american so it won't affect me. I was merely answering why i thought obama was receiving such vitriol and it's because he tried to force through something that the citizens didn't want with no consideration for the peoples opinions. The reason I said I hoped it would be the nail in his coffin re: a second term is because I can't stand him regardless of his health reform bill.

I don't agree that "he tried to force through something that the citizens didn't want with no consideration for the peoples opinions." The majority of Americans want/wanted reform of the health care system as demonstrated by his being elected in the first place. Health care was one of his biggest policy platforms. And I don't think anyone anywhere can come up with legislation that everyone is going to agree with. It doesn't mean therefore that you do nothing.

Tomasky has an insightful take on the health care reform process, which may be of interest to the OP.

Americans resist all forms of government intervention as their default setting - even if it helps them. The average man in the street equates any hint at 'socialism' with 'communism'. The USA's I'm All Right Jack, Dog Eat Dog culture makes Thatcherism look all fuzzy & emotional by comparison. There are also some nasty racial implications under the surface of the debate. If you're wealthy, working and white then your healthcare is going to be excellent and you certainly won't want to pay more tax to help out someone else. If you're poor, jobless and black (which most of the millions of uninsured are) then, as we saw during the Katrina disaster, no-one cares about your sorry-ass life, never mind your health

You realise how lucky we are to be Europeans at times like this.

for Badgers Paw Drug companies are notorious for not being particularly explicit in their accounts.

I think he is fully aware of how unpopular this bill is and he knew how much opposition he would have, as many other politicians have tried and failed miserably to do this before.

I am so impressed that he has put aside how unpoular it will make him amongst so many US citizens who can't understand the benefits and he may well go from being one of the most popular presidents elected to a one termer in a short time due to healthcare reform.

Good on you Mr. Obama.

So glad this bill has been passed. America makes out that they are 'civilized' but in reality they are very backwards

"he has put aside how unpoular it will make him amongst so many US citizens who can't understand the benefits"

This is what I was referring to earlier on. Rightly or wrongly he is dismissing any opposition to the bill as the people "just not understanding " what he is doing and a lot of them feel patropnised and ignored by this. They're saying we do understand and we don't want it.

Riven, are you thinking of changing your name to MN Oracle any time soon

Riven, I remember those comments about Stephen Hawkin. It was unreal.

The sad fact is that a large percentage of Americans never leave their home State, let alone the country, so are reliant on the Media to form a view of the outside world.

Don't get me wrong, I love Americans and deal with a large number of them through my work, but there is a significant minority that believe America is always right and to hell with everyone else.

I think part of the problem is that many older voters in America grew up during the Cold War and therefore have an ingrained fear of anything remotely "lefty" - automatically thinking that it is Communist.

As someone else on this thread said, I do think that there is an element of racism in this arguement. As with the Civil Rights movement it is the right-wing conservatives that are the most vocally against the policy.

I lived in the states for years, and the medical insurance issues there are a nightmare.

• medical insurance is generally connected to your employment which means if you switch employment, your medical insurance will switch as well - including costs, level of coverage, which physician you are allowed to go to, which hospital (if in a large area) you are allowed to go to, and possibly you may be confronted with a "pre-existing conditions" clause (which means the new insurance may refuse to pay for a pre-existing condition such as diabetes, asthma, etc etc for generally 1 year, so you have to pay for any/all expenses related to that particular illness). Because of this, many people are literally tied to their jobs, as switching medical insurance can be so disruptive and expensive. If you decide you want to keep your old insurance, you can pay it through Cobra, but it is exhorbitant (when I changed jobs, my DD with asthma was deemed to have a pre-existing condition, so for one year I had to continue to pay a huge amount to cover her asthma, because while it was very expensive, a couple weeks in the hospital with an asthma problem would have bankrupt us!).

• so many people have no insurance, so when their children (or themselves) get ill, they can't afford care immediately, so they self-treat at home, and only go into the A&E (ER) when the illness is extremely progressed.

I absolutely hated that when my DD was ill and had to be seen, I had to check to make sure I had the necessary funds to pay the co-pay ($10 for office visit, $25 for after hours, and $50 for emergency room). That co-pay was collected up front, before she was even seen by a nurse or doctor. And if you got fobbed off with a "if they're worse tomorrow, bring them back".. another co-pay.

God, I love the NHS.