John Venables- do we have a right to know???

[onebadbaby]

Do we really have the right to know if and when the killers of James Bulger re-offend?

I am inclined to say we don't. If they have been given a new identity and life then what is the point and benefit of the general public having knowledge. In my opinion, any re-offences should remain in his new name.

Obviously members of the press behold certain information on the new lives of the two killers, but I really don't see the benefit of this being public knowledge.

Also- do you remember how you thought and behaved at ten? I certainly do and in a way I don't think ten years old is under the age when responsibility for such an horrific crime has to be considered.

Opinions??

i think you might need to know if you had some insight into offending, what kind of programmes they had been on etc.
But for such an emotive case you do( depsite what we all think) have to consider someones safety.

telling " the public" what happened when to be frnak they can do eff all about it, is futile imo.

anwyay, was only a drunken fight, par for the course for 3/4 of young men ime

"Swarthy - why is it none of my business? With such a high profile, disgusting crime, it is my business to know what's happening with the perpetrators. "

Are you wearing curlers and carrying a rolling pin whilst saying that?

no sea
i posted that article - was interesting.
I couldnt live in a soc that sent kid to prison.
bad enough that they were tried in an adult court in the first place.

ZIGZAG - There are plenty of disgusting non high profile or famous crimes. You dont seem interested in these. On this and the other thread you go on and on about the crimes being well known, or infamous. What difference does it make? Does a crime being in the papers mean that you hae any right to know the details?

You dont have a right to know, you're just a nosy bugger, admit it.

yes it smacks of voyeurism

Lol Pfft I admit it but seriously, I did question myself as to whether it was just nosiness, and part of it may be, but I do have a genuine interest in all crimes, I'm just on a short break from a masters degree in forensic psychology, so it makes no odds to me whether it's high profile or not.

But a high profile case gives people a chance to discuss how they feel about such deviant behaviours ie what caused them, how we can prevent them in the future etc. I'm not sure how people can discuss a crime they know nothing about, so of course a lot of publicity is bound to generate interest.

Fuck me Libra...are you looking in my window

but its a boring assault as it happens

ten a penny

but he has been granted anonymity
that is the whoel point!!!

well said smallwhitecat

SwarthyWaiter, I remember this article you linked to, it was an eye opener on at lest two levels for me ; yes, secure units are very similar too prisons and also, even the hardest of children who have commited horrific crimes are still children and should be treated as such.

Smallwhitecat your poste makes a lot of sense and I agree that our society has to care about following up the "penal business" but in that instance, it feel more a case of people wanting to know if something horrific/juicy happened (at least in a large proportion).

I remember when the news of it was first time on TV a couple of days ago( maybe the pannel of public interviewed was deliberatly chosen to be provocative)most people seemd to be calling for vengence to what happened in Liverpool when he was a child. I had the distinct feeling that they were hopping his anonymity would be lifted, thanks to that breach of condition, and that this would allow us (society) to punih him some more for an horrific previous crime he has already been punished for, rather than to punish him for whatever he has done wrong now. I find that quite scary.

here it is for old times sake

"to punih him some more for an horrific previous crime he has already been punished for"

No, he hasn't really been "punished" for anything. He has been kept aside and (hopefully) rehabilitated, and set free with the understanding that if he steps out of line, he WILL get the punishment he deserved and only escaped because of his age.

The paragraph below is from your link on secure children's homes. It reads like the normal day in the life of a child in a normal family - get up in the morning, breakfast, school, activities, computer time if he's been good. Basically, state has taken over his education and social conditioning, since his family have failed so spectacularly.

?We get up at 7.30, Breakfast at 8.15. Then chores ? hoovering, dusting ? till 8.50. Then education, with lessons till 12.15, including a short break, and then lunch. Then education again until 3.30, after which there is some individual or group work till tea at 4.45. After that it?s homework for an hour... then after that Structured Activities ? craftwork, model- making, gym, badminton, table tennis, volleyball,? says the manager. ?Then after that maybe some time on the Xbox, if you?ve earned the privilege. We have supper at 8.30 and then it?s off to bed with everybody, depending on their age, locked in by 9.30.?

That sounds like life in a normal family. With activities, school, computer time if you've been good.

todays article

and a snippet from it

Jon Venables has made several trips to the city where he murdered toddler James Bulger since being released, it has been reported, despite a ban on him doing so.
The 27-year-old has visited nightclubs and a pop concert in Liverpool and even watched Premier League side Everton at Goodison Park, the Daily Mirror said.
But he has reportedly not visited Bootle, the city district where he and Robert Thompson snatched James 17 years ago and took him off to his death.
After being released on licence and with a new identity in 2001, Venables was ordered not to return to Merseyside, among a series of other conditions

Can I just ask, DH mentioned yesterday that we knew the names of these boys who committed a crime, yet, unless I missed something, the names of the boys who committed a similar act in Doncaster recently weren't released. Has something in the law changed since then?

So the latest developments, is not shop lifting or forgetting road tax as many so generously thought at the beginning of the week/story breaking www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7383903/James-Bulger-killer-Jon-Venables-accused-of-serious-sex-offe nce.html

My biggest concern is did he get employed as a nightclub bouncer, if so what the hell went wrong with crb checking ? The whole system is a complete failure.

Grow up TSC - would you be happy for him to be working around your daughter when she's half cut in the city centre on a Friday night ?
Bouncers are supposed to be CRB checked, if he has slipped through the net then somebody's head needs to roll it's fucking disgrace.

If you've ever seen a CRB they have a special notes box at the bottom of the (usually) blank sheet, in this box the police put "not suitable" and that's the end of the matter, everyone who needs to process a crb knows that is code for not on your nelly.

Any other non related or say fraud, theft type crimes are simply listed and people potentially employing can make up their own minds about suitability, maybe they considered child torturing to fall into that category, what with him being a reformed character and all.

I believe (someone please correct me if wrong) that he didnt have to go through a CRB check or if he did it was using his new name. It is easy to be generous, say he has changed and he deserves another chance, however what if it had been your child this had happened to....

I think there is a legitimate public interest and I'm quite sure the details will come out. They just can't release right now because there is another alleged victim. That person's right to a trial, and his right to a fair one, outweighs our right to know right now.

The same thing happened when Baby P's stepfather was being tried for raping his 2 year old step-daughter. We were only told who they all were after the conviction. I suspect that they are trying so hard a lid on this so as not to prejudice any trial.

With all the evil adult child killers and rapists around, I do not understand why these child killers are so notorious in comparison. Its a horrid crime, but I think its far more horrid when an adult kills actually.

I was reading the other day how the most notorious people in Britain with new idetities was Thomson/Venables and Mary Bell who were all children when they killed and Maxine Carr who never actually killed anyone at all.

I am not sure they would have been treated in the same way in another country.