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am surprised there is no mention on here of the trainer killed by a killer whale at seaworld.

53 replies

wannaBe · 25/02/2010 09:34

very for her and her family.

But these are wild animals, and in all honesty if we try to keep wild animals with killer instincts in captivity and work closely with them, then there is always a chance that instinct will kick in one day.

The whale was doing what comes naturally - as horrible as that is.

OP posts:
thesunshinesbrightly · 25/02/2010 12:31

Poor whale, not surprised it attacked.

wannaBe · 25/02/2010 12:31

Sorry, my ie won't let me copy/paste links atm but keiko's story is:

" KEIKO'S STORY: THE TIMELINE

This is the story of how a two-year-old orca whale began an amazing journey that has spanned five countries and tens of thousands of miles.

table with 5 columns and 34 rows

1977 or 1978:
Keiko is born in the Atlantic Ocean near Iceland.
1979:
Keiko is captured by a fishing boat, separated from his family, and held in an Icelandic aquarium.
1982:
Marineland in Ontario, Canada buys Keiko, where he becomes a performing animal.
1985:
Marineland sells Keiko to Reino Aventura, an amusement park in Mexico City, for $350,000.
1992:
Warner Bros. Studios begins filming the movie "Free Willy" on location in Mexico City. The plot involves a young boy saving a whale, portrayed by Keiko.
1993:
Free Willy is a surprise hit at the theaters, especially with millions of school children around the world. That support, along with media coverage detailing
Keiko's unacceptable living conditions in Mexico City, prompts the movie studio, the park, and animal protection advocates to find Keiko a new home. Dr.
Lanny Cornell comes on board as Keiko's lead veterinarian.
1994:
Earth Island Institute, an environmental advocacy group for marine wildlife, begins the search for a location where Keiko can be brought back to health
and trained for potential release to the wild. The Free Willy Foundation is formed in November with a $4 million donation from Warner Bros., and an anonymous
donor.
1995:
The Mexico City amusement park donates Keiko to the Free Willy/Keiko Foundation. The foundation announces Keiko will be moved to a new, $7.3 million rehabilitation
facility at the Oregon Coast Aquarium. Craig McCaw is revealed as the anonymous donors of $2 million, which helped start the Free Willy/Keiko Foundation.
The Humane Society of the United States also becomes a sponsor.
1996:
United Parcel Service sponsors the airlifting of Keiko to the aquarium on January 7. Weighing just 7,720 pounds, Keiko is placed in his new pool and experiences
natural sea water for the first time in 14 years. Keiko gains more than 1,000 pounds, and by year's end his skin lesions begin to heal. Keiko is featured
on the cover of Life Magazine and in a popular documentary, The Free Willy Story, on the Discovery Channel. More than 2 million visitors come to see Keiko
in Oregon.
1997:
Keiko's staff begins introducing him to live fish in an effort to teach him to hunt for food. His skin lesions have all disappeared and he is determined
to be in excellent health. He catches and eats his first live fish in August. By June, Keiko weighs 9,620 pounds. The staff of the Free Willy/Keiko Foundation
sets a goal of releasing Keiko into a pen in the North Atlantic by 1998. After an intensive search and negotiations with foreign governments the decision
is made to reintroduce Keiko to the wild in Iceland.
1998:
A medical panel determines that Keiko is healthy and exhibiting the normal behavior patterns of a killer whale. Keiko is eating live steelhead weighing
from three to 12 pounds each, comprising up to half of his daily intake of food. On September 9, Keiko is lifted from his tank and transported by a US
Airforce C-17 transport jet from Newport directly to Klettsvik Bay in Vestmannaeyjar, Iceland.
1999:
During his first full year back in his native Icelandic waters, Keiko, now under the day-to-day care of the Ocean Futures Society, continues training to
prepare him for his potential reintroduction to the wild. An essential component of his program is moving his attention from above to below the surface
of the water. In doing so, Keiko depends less on his human caretakers and develops greater interest in his natural environment.
2000:
Keiko is fitted for a tracking device that will allow staff to take him out to the open ocean. Keiko makes amazing progress during his sea "walks," even
beginning to interact with wild orcas in the vicinity of his sea pen. His health and stamina improves as he comes closer to returning to his wild ways.
2001:
Early in the year, Keiko exhibits behaviors consistent with wild whales-competing with other animals for food. Keiko begins initiating contact with wild
orcas in the vicinity and spends several days away from his human companions. The primary challenge ahead is for Keiko to begin maintaining himself on
wild fish and regularly associating with wild orcas.
2002:
On his first day out of the netted bay pen in the summer of 2002, Keiko leaves the tracking boat and begins spending considerable time in the company of
whales. He is monitored in and around groups of wild whales for the next three weeks. He then begins an epic journey covering nearly 1000 miles across
the North Atlantic, by the Faeroe Islands, and to the coast of Norway.

The first observations of Keiko in Norway document that he is in excellent physical condition. Keiko has been on his own for close to 60 days without food
from humans. His lead veterinarian, and a variety of other orca scientists, come to the conclusion that Keiko has successfully fed himself in the wild,
a major milestone in his journey to the wild.

Keiko follows a fishing boat inside a Norwegian fjord in the Halsa Community. He is an instant hit there with people coming from throughout Europe. Thousands
of visitors come to see the friendly whale. The Project staff work closely with the Norwegian government to put in place regulations to keep people from
swimming with, feeding, or getting too close to Keiko.

Meanwhile, the Craig McCaw Foundation and Ocean Futures Society turn over the management of the project to the Free Willy Keiko Foundation and the Humane
Society of the U.S.

In December Keiko is walked to the Taknes bay staff continue to work with and feed Keiko. For the first time ever, Keiko is in an area where he can come
and go as he chooses. The Free Willy Keiko Foundation and the Humane Society of the US continue to care for Keiko while allowing his historic journey to
the wild to move ahead.

The Norwegian government gives its full support to the continued effort to give Keiko the chance to return to the wild.

2003:
December 12, 2003 -- The Free Willy Keiko Foundation and The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) reported today that Keiko, the orca whale, died
today in the Taknes fjord, Norway, in the company of staff members who have been caring for him there.

Keiko's veterinarian believes that acute pneumonia is the most likely cause of death, though he also cited that Keiko was the second oldest male orca whale
ever to have been in captivity.

The two organizations managing Keiko's reintroduction effort expressed sadness at Keiko's death while also heralding his amazing journey.

Yesterday, Keiko exhibited signs of lethargy and lack of appetite. Consultation was continuous between his caretakers and Dr. Cornell. His behavior was
still abnormal this morning and his respiratory rate was irregular, but, as is often the case with whales and dolphins in human care, these were advanced
signs of his condition. With little warning, Keiko beached himself and died in the early evening local time. A decade ago, Keiko was featured in the Hollywood
movie, Free Willy, prompting a worldwide effort to rescue him from poor health, in an attempt to allow him to be the first orca whale ever returned to
the wild."

So it took years and years and yet he was never really ever successfully returned to the wild.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 25/02/2010 14:13

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wannaBe · 25/02/2010 16:19

yes, I do agree with that.

Have just been reading about orkas captured from the wild and I stand corrected - Tilikum was caught when he was about two years old. However, the incident with the trainer in canada happened when three orkas tossed him to each other - there was also a calf present and it was the first time a trainer had been in the water with them. So it's not quite as straightforward as the press quoting "this whale has killed before,"

OP posts:
CarrieDaBabi · 25/02/2010 18:38

the size of those enclourses are far too small for killer whales
the poor things

Missus84 · 25/02/2010 18:43

I have no sympathy for her - dangerous and immoral work.

jibbs · 25/02/2010 18:56

if people stop going to see the shows, then perhaps these poor animals wouldn't have to perform them?

CoteDAzur · 25/02/2010 21:11

Any captive being intelligent enough to comprehend his situation would conceivably attack his jailers. And orcas are one of the most intelligent animals.

edam · 25/02/2010 21:36

Agree with everyone that it's hideous to keep orca in captivity.

Poor sod (the whale, that is. Poor woman too but she put herself in danger by choosing to exploit a wild animal).

ClaireDeLoon · 26/02/2010 09:38

Reading the newspaper today it seems that this is the largest orca currently in captivity, and that because of it's history (see wannabe's post of 16.19 yesterday) no trainers were ever allowed in the water with it.

And they are now discussing whether to kill it or to release it back to where it was taken captive around Iceland in 1983 at the age of two. Because obviously after 27 years in captivity it will be able to fend for itself

ClaireDeLoon · 26/02/2010 09:41

Oh yeah and I loved this quote from Chuck Tompkins, who overseas animal training for Seaworld parks

"When you're working together with a killer whale that's 6,000 pounds and they're doing it because they like being with you, it's one of the most rewarding things"

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 26/02/2010 10:25

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RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 26/02/2010 10:27

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Ariesgirl · 26/02/2010 12:23

The killer whale is a dolphin, the largest kind. All dolphins are are toothed cetaceans or part of the odontecetes. There! (sorry, Marine biologist speaking)

ALL dolphins are powerful predators. They are not fluffy angels with smiley faces who give therapy to sick children. If they decide they would like to hurt or kill you, they will. If there are any so-called friendly dolphins in your area, like the one who was swimming round Folkestone a while back, please don't let your kids swim with it. It's not good for the children or the dolphin ultimately and both will risk cross-species parasitic infections. And please don't visit aquaria with captive dolphin facilities, no matter how much education and research they claim they are doing. If you want your children to see dolphins go with a responsible boat trip in the wild.

Ariesgirl · 26/02/2010 12:25

And btw it's only male orcas who have tall straight dorsal fins. The females have shorter curved ones like other species of dolphin.

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion · 26/02/2010 12:33

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ClaireDeLoon · 26/02/2010 13:28

If you do want your children to watch dolphins in the wild the best place IMHO is to go to the Highlands of Scotland to a place called Chanonry Point on the Black Isle just north of Inverness. You can stand on the beach and watch them fishing very close to shore without disturbing them at all. If you're very lucky the might start doing leaps and breaches (because they want to not because they're trained to) and if you're very very lucky you might get to see a tiny calf swimming beside it's mother as she hunts.

link to a website of images of them, scroll down

I know it's a bit of a trek north but it is well worth it and much closer than Orlando

Ariesgirl · 26/02/2010 13:47

Sorry, didn't realise it was the males with flopped fins. That's really awful. They should have realised there was some kind of health thing going on with them.

edam · 27/02/2010 09:22

I found a dead dolphin once, on a deserted beach in Crete. Horrible. Was sunbathing with my little sis and when I got up noticed there was something odd on the sand. Went to see and there was an deceased Flipper. Not a mark on him or her, either.

I have no idea whether dead dolphins usually wash up on beaches.

Honneybunny · 27/02/2010 10:15

poor whale, poor woman

dh knew the canadian girl who was killed in 1991. she was not actually in the water with the orcas, but was dragged in from the poolside. she was tossed back and forth between them, and it took two hours to fish her out.

i am not sure the "killing" has anything to do with hunting instincts. sounds more like he was being playful.

only thing that will put a stop to seaworld and a-like is that visitors stop going. unfortunately, it will be too late for those whales in captivity to be released, as i am sure there are major problems with them integrating into the wild, but at least the breeding of killer whales in captivity (of which Tilikum apparently was a big part: he's a father of many, i read somewhere) should be put to a halt.

choclab · 27/02/2010 17:31

i was in orlando only last week went to see the sea world show on the thursday before .
they are huge and like some others i did feel a bit sad for them.
Saw the big Orca in question , and he is huge ,

very sad for family and indeed spectators who may have whittnessed the event ....

maybe can should learn something from this somehow .

dont know what , but its so sad ..

clam · 27/02/2010 17:42

Ariesgirl, any idea why, on "swimming with dolphins" trips on package holidays, they won't let pregnant women participate? Is that to do with parasitic infections too?

Missus84 · 28/02/2010 10:07

choclab - maybe you can learn not to pay money to see huge, intelligent wild mammals be forced to do tricks in inadequate cages?

BratleyBackToNormal · 28/02/2010 10:27

I was in the staffroom at work when I heard about this and out of about 10 people I was the only one who said 'poor animal, I'm not surprised it snapped!'
Everyone else just talked about how fabulous the shows are at seaworld, where's the best place to sit and the funny mime guy when you go in!
Made me very sad.

Killer whales are just too big and intelligent to be kept in captivity, it doesn't surprise me in the least to hear something like this has happened.

My thoughts go out to the womans family for their loss but my main thought is the future of the killer whale, sounds like its hanging in the balance now
Really hope its not killed but what else will they do? It wouldn't survive if it were to be released and they won't risk it killing again.

choclab · 28/02/2010 13:20

Missuse84

I did not pay just for this show there were many other attractions in sea world , it would appear they are raised in captivity and no no different ,to release them back to the wild would not be an option as they wouldnt know how to survive , this doesnt make it right however .... but theses sorts of shows go on all over the world with all kinds of different animals in Zoo's also , and like i said before i did feel very sad for them when seeing the show , something i would not be doing again .
this whole situation high lights this captivity issue and should be looked at in view to change .