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WARNING v upsetting: The Doncaster Boys., who were attacked..

362 replies

ElenorRigby · 21/01/2010 19:58

a case from last year...
Here are the details, according a local paper.
Source

Its not pretty

"THE full horror of the terrifying and brutally violent attack on two young boys by a pair of brothers in secluded woodland in Doncaster last April has been revealed to a shocked courtroom.

A hearing at Sheffield Crown Court was yesterday given full and painfully graphic detail of the sadistic 90-minute attack by the then 10 and 11-year-old siblings involving a variety of weapons including branches, barbed wire, lit cigarettes and heavy rocks, which left one of their victims close to death and the other badly injured and deeply traumatised.

Members of the victims' families sobbed as the court was shown haunting video footage taken by the older brother on a stolen mobile phone midway through the attack. It showed his stricken 11-year-old victim shaking and covered in blood as he was prodded and taunted by the younger of the two brothers.

A child psychiatrist who had interviewed the younger brother later described him as "cold and calculating" in his ability to switch between seemingly good behaviour and acts of violence.

Dr Eileen Vizard told the court the boy represented a "high risk" to the public and warned that without prolonged and successful intervention by specialists he may have the potential to develop psychopathy.

The young perpetrators, now aged 11 and 12, were dressed smartly in shirts and ties and sat passively in the dock as their shocking catalogue of violence was laid out before a High Court judge, Mr Justice Keith.

The pair, who cannot be named for legal reasons, had pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing to counts of causing grievous bodily harm with intent, robbery and intentionally causing a child to engage in a sexual act. Charges of attempted murder were dropped.

The court heard how they came across their two young victims at a playground and lured them to a secluded area with the promise of showing them a dead fox.

Once there, the brothers subjected them to a vicious 90-minute attack using branches, sharpened sticks, barbed wire, broken glass, rocks weighing up to two stone, and pieces of metal.

Both victims were repeatedly hit with tree branches and fists as they lay cowering on the ground, the court heard. Their faces were stamped on and heavy rocks dropped on their heads.

At one stage the battered and bloodied victims were forced to attempt to perform sexual acts together.

Later, one was choked with a metal hoop, the older boy putting his foot on his victim's back "for extra leverage", said Nicholas Campbell QC, prosecuting. The younger victim was strangled with a clothes line.

The same victim eventually sustained a deep wound to his arm, which the older brother forced a lit cigarette into. When the terrified nine-year-old said he needed the toilet, he was forced to urinate on his friend's face.

The court heard that as the attack reached its climax, the younger victim was ordered to kill himself. He repeatedly rammed a sharpened stick into his own mouth before slumping against a tree.

His older friend was left for dead after having part of a broken sink dropped on his head. He could not be interviewed by police until 10 days later due to the seriousness of his injuries.

The court also heard details of a strikingly similar attack carried out by the brothers on a choirboy in Edlington a week earlier.

The court was told how he too was lured to the patch of wasteland, this time with the promise of seeing a "massive toad", and how he was beaten and stamped on. The brothers have pleaded guilty to a charge of assault causing actual bodily harm.

On that occasion their 11-year-old victim was apparently saved from an even worse fate by the intervention of a passer-by. The brothers were identified a few days later and were due to attend a police station on the morning of Saturday, April 3.

Instead, they fled their foster home, and within an hour had begun their second savage attack. The pair are due to be sentenced tomorrow.

The hearing continues."

For most parents the details of case of the depravity is beyond belief.

OP posts:
Awassailinglookingforanswers · 22/01/2010 22:31

hbfac indeed - perhaps we could club together to form our own party before the next GE - .

I have to admit I often ask myself why I want to work in this area. But I just get so bloody passionate and enraged etc etc that it's something I just HAVE to do.

I'm not sure exactly what I want to do, probably FSW type work, one of those people that step in to help families who are struggling (either with parenting issues or finanicial, or whatever, any of the things that make life difficult for them) when they ask for help, and point them in the right direction, whether that's the Job Centre to get their benefits, the council to get them housing, sure start centres/groups etc for parenting help, or anything really.

The sort of "omg help we're in a mess because of xyz" and you help them get whatever help from whichever department it may be. Not sure exactly yet - recent RL experiences, and the stuff I've been learning on my course are altering it slightly all the time.

The pay is absolutely shite - but I don't give a damn.

Actually last year I saw the WA in town where looking for volunteers to help women who were moving out of the refuge into their own place, helping them source furniture, set up accounts, helping them make budgets, etc etc. This will sound a little strange (given what those women have been through) but what they were looking for excited me - I really wanted to do it - but then H became really ill so wasn't able to (and they're not looking for anyone right now).

If I could find paid (minimum wage would do me just fine) job doing something like that I'd be very happy

hbfac · 22/01/2010 22:50

Awassailing - tangent perhaps but it's a lift on a thread.

MollieO · 22/01/2010 22:53

Ridiculous that the serious case review has not been published (I thought it had but NN got a leaked copy). Even the judge wasn't allowed to read it .

Ed Balls on NN now speaking bllcks.

MollieO · 22/01/2010 22:56

Seems the executive summary (published) bears little relation to the full report.

mateykatie · 22/01/2010 23:01

ARGH. Did anyone else watch Ed Balls about this on Newsnight?

What a lying toad.

Gavin Esler presented about 5 different examples of how the real report differs from the summary - and he tried to duck responsibility, hiding behind the "advice" given by all sorts of quangos and worthies.

drloves8 · 22/01/2010 23:01

dodgy that the summary doesnt quite match the full report.- wtf -the judge wasnt allowed to read it? how is he supposed to do his job if theres a ban?. stinks of cover up.imo.

TheShriekingHarpy · 22/01/2010 23:03

This reply has been deleted

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mateykatie · 22/01/2010 23:10

Mollie) - the judge wasn't allowed to see the full report? I somehow missed that.

Words fail me. They really do.

drloves8 · 22/01/2010 23:12

would the dress code of the judge actually make a difference to the brothers (assuming perpitrators, not victims). i doubt if boys who have done what they did, and watched saw and chucky ,would be intimidated by anyone.

MollieO · 22/01/2010 23:16

This is the full text of the judge's comments on sentencing. WARNING - it contains some graphic details of the crimes committed on these 3 boys.

De-robing is normal for cases involving children.

TheCrackFox · 22/01/2010 23:30

God, that makes for horrifying reading. I think it is right and proper that there should be an attempt to rehabilitate these two boys but after reading the judge's comments I don't think it is actually possible.

Mongolia · 22/01/2010 23:30

I'm sorry, this is absolutely horrendous, I don't trust the authorithies to make them safe. They will never be. They will do it again. I'm sorry that as a mother (of another child, true) I wont be able to absolve, pardon or justify this on anything that has happened in their previous life.

They deserve to be shot, and me too for saying this. I have always been against death penalty and have actively campaigned against it. But this is beyond me.

expatinscotland · 22/01/2010 23:32

The reality is that they will become psychopaths during incarceration and will be released into society, where it's entirely likely their next victim(s) will be murdered in a most horrible fashion.

TheShriekingHarpy · 22/01/2010 23:32

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Message withdrawn

expatinscotland · 22/01/2010 23:36

and that their parents will continue to breed and produce even more psychopaths.

because it's not kosher to prevent such individuals to do otherwise in any way.

drloves8 · 22/01/2010 23:37

ive just read that link.
evil little sadists.
from what im guessing , the judge has given them the maximum sentence he can - (which is too lenient imo).
i hope those boys are never let out, and when they are finished doing thier time- they should be transfered to a secure -mental hospital. i dont see how they could be "fixed".
those poor victims...no child should have to suffer like they did.

MollieO · 22/01/2010 23:41

I don't think the de-robing was special to this case, just the norm for cases involving children.

I was heartened to read the judge's comments. It is clear that he isn't fooled by the defence's statement saying about the improved behaviour whilst on remand. However because of being held on remand their sentence of 5 yrs is in fact 4 yrs 3 mths (time spent on remand counts as part of their sentence). The judge was clear that he does not expect either boy to be released at the end of this period. Also because they will be detained beyond the age of 14 the terms of their detention will change - from local authority care I assume to a young offenders' institute (not sure about what they will change to).

The pre-sentencing reports are a telling indication of what the professionals think of the potential to rehabilitate these boys. Dr Vizard is apparently one of the country's leading child psychiatrists and yet she was intimidated when she interviewed the younger boy. I imagine the older, less intelligent brother is more likely to be released some time before the younger one.

edam · 22/01/2010 23:42

Nice to see Doncaster "Safeguarding" board think they are so jolly important they can refuse to give the judge sentencing these children a copy of the full report.

And we are supposed to believe that anything has changed in Doncaster, or in the culture of those who allegedly run or hold to account social services?

drloves8 · 22/01/2010 23:43

expat - i dont think they will become psycopaths. . . They are psycopaths... who will probably get worse at the onset of puberty .( thats often when these things are "discovered" ).
Their parents should be sterilised , but that would be too little too late - about 13 years too late.

pissinmy2shoes · 22/01/2010 23:44

I couldn't read all the link..
I have lost any ounce of compassion I might have had for them.
I do hope and pray that the poor victims get the support they need.

nighbynight · 22/01/2010 23:44

this is terrible, but why did the victims not fight back?
they were about the same age. The report suggests that they were powerless to do anything, as though it was an adult attacking a child, or a man attacking a woman, or a big group attacking one person.

I just dont understand the dynamics of a situation where 2 boys can do this to 2 other boys of about the same age.

pissinmy2shoes · 22/01/2010 23:46

easy they were scared but the pure nastyness of these boys

Ponders · 22/01/2010 23:46

this suggests that the 2 boys can be turned around, & please god they can, because the alternatives don't bear thinking about - either they spend their lives inside, or they get out & do the same, or worse, again.

But honestly, the 2 boys who committed those terrible crimes have had such an unbelievably horrific life, it's not their fault & I was glad to see that their parents (more specifically their father) may be charged later

Mongolia · 22/01/2010 23:47

There is always the debate nurture vs nature.

You can't sort all the problems by nurturing (or blame them in lack off). Many children grow in horrendous environments and don't go and do this to other children. Some people are just evil and no amount of nuturing could change that. You can hardly rehabilitate a murderous psycopath, there is no consicience, which strings can be pulled to sort them up?

Mongolia · 22/01/2010 23:48

BTW ponders, have not read your link yet. off tp do it..

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