clegg says no to the baby trainers

[zippyzapper]

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6982398.ece

wowie - i might even vote lib deb - go on clegg take on gina and her baby training madness. Anyone else agree?

I thought he was having a go a Nike from your thread title .

Lots of people agree, but i can't find the thread - so it's probably been pulled.

Just short-sighted

here it is.

I wondered how long it would take before a thread was started on this article.

He seems very sensible, I might even vote for them now!

People use parenting manuals? Have they no friends? No parents of their own? Have they never come across a child before?

What has happened to society and common sense?

Here's a clue; if you need a parenting manual you should not have become a parent.

"If you need a parenting manuel you should never become a parent" what a ridiculous thing to say.

I needed a baby manuel I was clueless about tiny babies having never had 24 hour responsibility for one let alone 2(twins) and was floundering badly with family miles away.

GF helped me enormously and I actually started to enjoy being a mum. As a fab hv once told me. Parenting isn't easy babies don't come with a manuel. You're a parent for a long time there will be stages you fly through that you find easy when others don't. There will be stages you struggle with,stages you'll grasp any info you can get whether it be books,magazine articles,advice from friends etc.

Babyhood was that stage for me.

I'm currently reading the "How to Talk " book which I'm also finding very useful-guess that makes me a really crap mum in your eyes Atlantis.

I wasn't going to post on this thread because most of the on topic conversation was going on at the other thread i linked to.

But atlantis, your baiting worked.

Actually, i don't have parents, and i don't have close friends where i am. And i have used parenting books to define my own thoughts. But even if i did have a support network, i would have referenced information from other sources including books. And many people obviously do.

Although GF's book didn't help me personally.

Your post is arrogant and misguided.

"But atlantis, your baiting worked."

I wasn't baiting, it has amused me how people could take mother nature, natural instincts, common sense and thrown them out the window.

A parenting manual? My god what does it say, babies are not to be put in washing machines and tumble driers, never microwave your baby?

If the story is right and the book says 'do not make eye contact with your child' thats as bad as mothers who say I don't smile at my child because I don't want to get crows feet.

I think most of us have used books at some point during the early raising of our first child, because we don't have family living within spitting distance. And we're more educated...more able to investigage the issues that affect us. To say you shouldn't have a child if you need a manual is madness. We all need help and we get it any way we can.

Personally, I am not a GF fan. At all. My child was horribly spoilt, if you look at the so called rule books. But at 8, she's a lovely, well mannered, self assured little girl. So I guess I didn't get it all wrong then!?!

Glad to know you weren't just baiting.

Echoing Milamae's sentiment, those first few months and beyond can be enormously trying. The sleep deprivation alone is enough to reach for any help and information on offer. And it makes sense to do so.

I think new parents are extremely vulnerable to buying things, including books, that they don't need because they lack confidence in their developing parenting skills. But your earlier statement of 'if you need a parenting manual you should not have become a parent' doesn't take into account the reality of most people's situation.

I assume that when you had your first child, you were lucky enough to have wonderful support and were given confidence from your family, maybe even friends and neighbours. Most people don't have all of that. No need to hurt other people who aren't as lucky as you and in their effort to be good parents get their information elsewhere.

BTW The book says to not look at your child, because it is too stimulating whilst trying to put it to sleep. In context it has a logic. I'm not saying it's right, by any means. But it follows it's own brand of logic.

The only book I read was Baby Wisdom. It was a book about infant care throught history and throughout the world. It gave me the courage to trust my instincts. The first years of my DD's life were relaxed and wonderful and I think some of the credit goes to this book. The book didn't have any advice in it but it really inspired me.

"I assume that when you had your first child, you were lucky enough to have wonderful support and were given confidence from your family, maybe even friends and neighbours. Most people don't have all of that"

I had already said that.

"People use parenting manuals? Have they no friends? No parents of their own? Have they never come across a child before?"

But actually when I had my first child we were kept in hospital for a week and shown how to take care of our children, there were midwives who helped and nurses on hand unlike now when you get toss out after a few hours.

I agree with Atlantis re: the total absence of common sense that leads to people needing parenting manuals. The best piece of advice I had was from a friend who told me that if I can look after animals then I can look after a baby. The same basics apply - love, warmth, food and clean bedding/clothing.

Having said that, I did buy Dr Sears book about 4 months in as I seemed to be the only parent I knew who fed to sleep and carried my baby constantly. It seemed the right thing to do and Dr Sears gave me the confidence to continue to do it. GF on the other hand I find very hard to take as she isn't intuitive at all (which I suppose comes from never having her own children).

There you go.
An instance where you may now need advice, maybe from a book, to replace the advice that our now understaffed hospitals used to give.

Not ideal. But attack the cause of the problem - not the people trying to find solutions to their immediate problems.

Did you really have no exasperating dilemmas after you left the hospital? If so, then i have a hunch that you're in a minority.

I only take offence to your statement:
"Here's a clue; if you need a parenting manual you should not have become a parent."

"I only take offence to your statement:
"Here's a clue; if you need a parenting manual you should not have become a parent."

Ok, I take it back, might seem a little strong, but it was meant tongue in cheek (like a joke).

"There you go.
An instance where you may now need advice, maybe from a book, to replace the advice that our now understaffed hospitals used to give. "

But Labour says thats what Health visitors are for when they reduced midwives and hospital stays?

I would be okay getting advice from a Health visitor rather than a book by one woman, who it seems has never had a child, maybe she had a pitbull, I hear you should never make eye contact with those. (thats another attempt at humour).

Personally I think there is a powerful parenting instinct that is diminished with too much reliance on parenting manuals. Most people know instinctively what to do with their children.

It was like a joke. Thanks for taking it back.

I agree with everything else you have said and with llareggub.

Humour. Ah. Yes. I remember that.

"Humour. Ah. Yes. I remember that. "

Here's a bit of parenting advice that I give to my DIL regually and I wont make you pay 16.99 for, above all else you have to keep your sense of humour, it what stands between you and the men in white coats.

"Humour. Ah. Yes. I remember that."

Ah that was my attempt at humour. I prefer self-deprecating style rather than at other people's expense.

But horses for courses and all that.

Thanks for the advice. Very generous of you. Lucky DIL to have your wisdom regularly.

So Clegg must have been listening to all that 'mumsnet will win the next election' chatter and has picked on the one issue that most MNers agree on - that GF's routines are restrictive ... Somebody (probably not him), knew that talking about GF would grab MN's attention. How awfully transparent.

my thoughts exactly crazycatlady but I do agree with everything he said about the old GF. I wish I'd never picked up her book with DS1 as we are still suffering the consequences with a child who is terrified of being left alone, of bedtimes, etc... in contrast to the happiest baby ever that is ds2, loved, cuddled, and given everything he needs whenever he needs it.

He probably has a point. Any vulnerable parent who's struggling with a newborn might well pick up many a parenting manual and just be overcome with feelings of inadequacy. I read quite a few, including GF, and picked up tips from all of them, while also ignoring an AWFUL lot of guff.

Sorry you had such a difficult time with your DS1 Wellies. It's hard isn't it, when you're just trying to do your best and then you feel you've been led up the garden path by some parenting expert.

But I think Clegg's reasoning for picking on GF is too transparent for words and not particularly worthy of respect. I'd like to know what his policies are, but this is a stupid attention grabbing stunt IMO.

thanks for the link chunkyrice.

just to add that it is not always common sense, callisto I so agree - we too carry our baby and keep him close and I have sometimes found that we seem to be in the minority and get odd comments from so called experienced parents like - "it can't be right that your baby needs feeding every 2 hours- your baby needs a routine"

It is tricky - so many first time parents now are cut off and isolated and a book that says "Do this" can be very attractive.

The only time I had anything to do with GF was when I was babysitting for a friend. I had to go and wake the baby up quite late at night and try and get a bottle down his throat. It was horrible, I ended up giving up and putting him back to bed, I just couldn't do it - he just wanted to sleep and it was late.

I do think it likely that this politician has caught whiff of Mumsnet and has decided to try to grab a few votes, he is a politician after all.

" "it can't be right that your baby needs feeding every 2 hours- your baby needs a routine" "

You baby needs TLC and thats what your giving, good for you, when their children have 'issues' because they were ignored when they are older that's their look out.

As long as baby is content that's all that matters, leaving a child to cry and not giving comfort, not making eye contact under the age of two? That's the best time to form the bond with baby and that bond will see you all the way through.

Plenty of time to form a routine when they are older and can understand.

Sorry I totally disagree. You do talk crap Atlantis.

All babies,mums,families are different with different needs and personalities.

Why should everybody parent your way Atlantis?

I parented the way which suited me and my babies.

My twins and I were totally miserable,frazzled and all over the place pre Gina. None of us knew what we were doing. 2 weeks of following Gina they and I became far more chilled and yes 'contended'. This was when we really started bonding as they and I actually started to feel human and could concentrate on each other instead of enduring nights and days of sleepless hell.

They and I absolutely hated not having a routine. They were sooo much happier once we started following one. I started my dd on Gina far sooner and she was a far more chilled baby far earlier on.

And the eye contact is just made far too much of by people who have never even tried it. Once on the routine my babies slept so well eye contact was never an issue as they never woke. Prior to this they woke to a sobbing wreck of a mother who believe me was not into making eye contact whatsoever and as it was pitch black wouldn't have been able to make eye contact even if they had wanted to.

My dc are now 6,6 and 5 and none have "issues" thankyou very much. I have an extremely close relationship with all of them and they're very well balanced happy kids. I think you'll find issues generally occur due to how we parent during the entire 18 years of parenting we do before dc become adults so plenty of scope for you to stuff up yet.

It's horses for courses regarding parenting we and our babies are all different,one size does not fit all. How arrogant to assume your way is the best and only way.