Rod Liddle, for example, is a twat

[SansSheriff]

Trying to outdo Jan Moir for most hideously offensive opinion piece of the year, here

Those 'men' really are human filth.
Quite why their colour or ethnicity is at all relevant I do not know.
Twat.

Rod Liddle does obviously try to offend, he enjoys the attention I think. I would tend to just ignore. I don't think he's changing opinions, he's just got a load of similarly smug middle-aged men nodding their heads sagely in agreement.

"""all Black and Minority Ethnic (BME) groups have a higher representation as users of the Criminal Justice System (CJS) when compared to their representation as members of the population as a whole""

I'm writing without researching here but I'm going to hazard a guess that they may well be over-represented in the poverty/deprivation stats too.

What would the crime statistics look like if socio-economic conditions were accounted for I wonder?

Jesus.

No wonder women grab their hanbags tightly when my DS walks past them.

I could cry, I really could. I have 3 boys and one more on the way. Is this how people really think about my lovely kids?

Harpy ? I obviously didn?t make my point very well.

The problem with statistics is that they don?t necessarily give the whole picture. To take my example of Brixton in the 1990s, on the face of it the statistics give the impression that all young black men in Brixton were violent criminals who were a danger to the public at large. In fact it was about 30 of them, all gang members who were known to the police; and nearly all of the crimes were being committed between themselves.

The problem is that because of this the majority of the population will now believe that all young black men are bad news, while you have a small group of do-gooders who think that the statistics are racist and untrue and refuse to accept them.

I do agree with you that worries about being branded racist often prevent a realistic approach to certain social problems, and the people who most need help end up missing out.

He may well be a twat but, sadly, in London the picture he paints is a very true one.

I've been mugged twice - both times by black male youths. I have two close friends that have been mugged, one was also horribly beaten up - again black male youths.

The panorama programme made earlier this year, by a black journalist, highlighted how gang rape is becoming something of a trophy crime amongs some black gangs.

It's a huge huge problem and sweeping it under the carpet doesn't help anybody.

Jeff makes a very important point. You need to know not just how many crimes are committed by black people in London, but also what proportion of the black population of London are committing these crimes.

You could have a situation where one person is almost single handedly responsible for the violent crime in an area- or a situation where a sizeable proportion of young people are involved in crime. It makes a difference.

he's speaking the truth...

Rod Liddle for example....can actually see what's going on

Message withdrawn

I'm with Glitterknickerz. Why does their colour have anything to do with their crime? I wondered if he highlighted the fact that members of the paedophile ring emmanating from the Plymouth nursery were white? Or the mother of Baby P? People of all colours commit dreadful crimes.

It's not PC to say that what RL has written is racist and deliberately provocative

RL is entitled to his opinion....has he said white people don't commit crimes ?...

he's asking what "black culture" has given us....

he didn't come up with much...

his opinion....freedom of speech and all that..

Since being sacked by the Today programme Rod Liddle has tried to paint himself as a controversialist-for-hire. No target is too soft for him to attack, no opinion too 'bracing' for him to espouse.

He clearly has bills to pay and a lifestyle to maintain, so needs to be a 'star' freelance journalist with a wide readership and a notorious reputation then he has to take these extreme positions.

I wouldn't take much notice to be honest.

sorry, but this is about as controversial as something that isn't in any way controversial..

he may well be setting himself up as the new Richard Littlejohn..

but ....

he's years out of date..

can't remember his name...(top policeman) said the majority of crime (in London) was committed by young black men...

he said that eons ago

He was wrong as well DP.

I am getting thoroughly sick of your offensive views.

I have been assaulted and robbed and threatend numerous times in my life.

Not once by a black man.

Does that mean all white men are violent thugs?

The vast majority of scummers on J. Vile are white.
Does that mean all white people are scum?

Total fucking bollocks.

Total fucking dangerous bollocks that creates an environment of distrust and fear and perpertrates the myth that black males are to be feared.f

alot of white men are violent thugs.....i'm not denying that..

there are areas of this country full of white people who have never had a job, and never will have a job, their "life achievement" will be owning a pitbull......that doesn't mean young black men arn't commiting crimes in London....

are you denying RL his opinion...?

you've just had yours...

I am not denying his opinion, I am denying that its correct.

The way you jump in on any discussion about race is very telling DP. I have more respect for those who openenly admit to their bigotry than those who try and justify it with anecdotes, bits of old crap gleaned from the internet and statements about 'white people have had enough'.

Racist is racist however you wrap it up.

Trouble is, Chegirl doesn't publish her opinion (which is a very reasonable and balanced one) in national newspapers or speak it in public forums. It might be RL's opinion, but it's an offensive and unnecessarily provocative one. There are more articulate and intelligent ways of expressing one's own views.

If RL can really think of nothing more that black culture has given us then he's got big problems. Does he honestly think this country would be a better place if it wasn't multicultural?

(Angelene - i know you're right, but I'm rising to the bait).

Ah. I meant 'public forums' as meaning forums such as the radio and TV that reach a mass audience - obviously Mumsnet is a public forum...

For those defending the idiot who wrote the article, it's not him saying that the are black people committing crime that has caused offence. It's him saying that crime is the only thing that the black population has bought to this country. That is offensive.

And if you cannot see that, then I'd really like to see how you justify it?

You could also look at it a different way. The majority of crimes are performed by those from deprived backgrounds or living in deprived areas. I bet that a higher proportion of young Afro-Caribbean men live in deprived conditions/areas than say, middle-aged white women. Poverty and inequality (or perceived inequality) breeds crime. I just need to look at my home country (South Africa) to see how true that is. If people's needs are met or are perceived to be met, it is rare that they resort to criminal activity to support themselves.

You could also argue that the majority of violent crimes are committed by men. Are we now going to write ridiculous articles about how pointless and awful men are? (Rod Liddle definitely falls in that category. With Jeremy Clarkson. Johnny Depp doesn't)

That's right Kaloki - that's what is so offensive about the article, not the ins and outs of whether black men do commit more crime or not.

And very good point Serenity.

Personally I do not see pitbulls and mugging as part of black culture any more than I see serial killers as part of white culture.

Its amazing how selective people can be about what is and what isnt a contribution.

Its not like contributions have every been misappropriated by those with the most power and influence is it?

So no black inventors, engineers, chefs, business men and women, teachers, doctors etc etc?

Nah its all about music and sport innit.

the majority of violent crime is commited by men...that is fact, it has alot to do with social issues, i think around 80% of men in prison come from homes where the father has buggered off, or was never around in the first place....

i don't get anything much from the internet chegirl....i remember reading about it in the papers years ago...

there's nothing wrong in stating facts or having an opinion...

if the majority of crime in London was commited by white women who post on mumsnet, i would be more than happy for that to be reported....

I thought it was a sickening attack on one group of people in society, actually.

I do think that something is going very wrong for certain sections of young, poor, inner-city males, who may happen to be black (seeing as if you are poor and live on a council estate in London, you are more likely to be black than white).

I also think that people who call themselves journalists should probably concern themselves more with genuine research into, and meaningful discussion on, this issue, rather than churning out a load of BNP-esque bile.

Liddell is a moron. I've been hating this fool for as long as he's been writing his shit.

Whatever DP. I wouldnt speak to you in real life so I am not going to bother on Mumsnet. Your views are odious and rarely if ever backed up with anything of substance.

I wouldnt want you near my boys as you clearly wouldnt want them near you.