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'snatched' by social workers

384 replies

DuelingFanjo · 02/12/2009 23:40

oh ffs

I know it's the Daily Mail but Social workers don't snatch children!

She looks good for 48 mind!

OP posts:
Oblomov · 04/12/2009 13:07

Agree with Poface. I don't mind being enlightened about JH, but the way NN is doing it and some of her comments are just .....odd.

MillyMollyMoo · 04/12/2009 13:09

Ok I don't know anything about how one becomes an MP, but surely he has to be of good character in order to stand and is acting in what he considers to be the best interests of the people he represents and these are real people with stories to tell about how they've been treated, you cannot dismiss that out of hand NN

ImSoNotTelling · 04/12/2009 13:16

I was told that if they believed there was serious risk of harm they would take my children immediately.

That aside, surely it is the SW who apply to the courts to have children removed. It is not doctors or teachers or anyone else. So even if the SW do not make the final decision, they are the ones who make the recommendation, who ask the courts for permission, and who do the removal AFAIK. So people associate SW with removing children. It is a part of their job, and it is that which scares people. When a SW comes into your house, you know that they are judging and assessing whether you should be looking after your children or not.

That's not something that anyone can get away from, surely.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 04/12/2009 13:16

Why are people bashing John Hemming?

Seems to me that he represents people who are so desperate and perhaps not as articulate as a number of posters here.

John Hemming doesn't decide the issues -- that's for the family court to decide and if the parties aren't properly represented, then it's an unfair process, so can't see that there's anything wrong with attempting to redress the balance.

Social workers' opinions are usually represented by the Council who have solicitors and barristers, and the process can be very confusing and upsetting. I think it's great that there is someone who is willing to represent people on the ground.

StewieGriffinsMom · 04/12/2009 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ImSoNotTelling · 04/12/2009 13:20

Great post obama. You are right.

pofacedandproud · 04/12/2009 13:26

I wonder also if NN is actually a brilliant SW when it comes to having to face very difficult situations where children are at risk - if she has to face violent situations regularly, if she has to take children from really bad situations quite regularly, then I can understand her defensiveness, to a degree. And maybe in those situations she has to be very steel willed and authoritative for those children's sakes, maybe that is what has shaped her personality, I really don't know. But NN I know you don't care what I think of you
but I'm really struggling to get to grips with the way you respond here and the way you respond in your job. I really, really do think SWs have an incredibly difficult job to do and most are doing a very good job, but as SGM says, there has to be more accountability and openness. You want us to trust that you never make mistakes but when doubts are raised you shout them down with so much aggression it is startling.

Oblomov · 04/12/2009 13:37

NN, what phrase should be used then ? when SS ask a court to remove a child/children.And the court finds in SS favour.
What phrase to you prefer for this scenario, then ?
what is the correct terminology ?

johnhemming · 04/12/2009 13:38

My advice to nananina is to throw away the spade.

Litchick · 04/12/2009 14:14

Oblomov - SS make an application to the court for an order.
Having heard from SS, the parents and the child ( generally through lawyers), the court either grants or denies the application.

DuelingFanjo · 04/12/2009 14:19

ok, so there we go. The people who think that John Hemming is inappropriately using real life cases he doesn't know enough about to illustrate points which are just not true are bullying him?

Purleeeese!

OP posts:
Oblomov · 04/12/2009 14:45

Litchick. Thank you.So, an "order is granted, by the court". Is that correct. That was what I always assumed.
But he basics are correct. Ss applies. Court grants.
No ?

ShinyAndNew · 04/12/2009 15:11

While I can see why the SW's are annoyed by JH's posts. I think the point they are making is quite dangerous too. It seems to me that they are saying SW's are brilliant, so great jobs and don't threaten people, or are able to make mistakes. While this might be true in 90% of cases, the fact remains that some SW's aree just as SGB described. They are power hungry eejits, who get off on threatening and belittling people they believe lower than themselves.

The SW I had DID tell me that she could and would take my children away, if I didn't go along with what I thought was an impossible task. I mean could you find the money to redecorate most of your hose in a week? Or the time? Does a stained carpet or slightly whiffy sofa effect a childs wellbeing in their home, enough to warrant the threat of having them removed? My house was not messy or squalid. The SW herself said it was tidy, but it was old and hadn't been redecorated or recarpted for centuries I imagine.

She also told me, when closing the case, that if a report was made again to SS, I WOULD lose my children.

I spent the next few months panicking that if I upset some one and they malicously phoned SS, my children would be taken. I now know that this isn't true, but I think the fact she tried to get me to believe that it is true is an appalling and damaging abuse of power.

I do think that people should be aware that while the vast majority of SW's do a great job, some do abuse the power they have.

pofacedandproud · 04/12/2009 15:27

obviously not DuelingFango. Following him around threatening to have him fired and calling him numerous insults is bullying though.

DuelingFanjo · 04/12/2009 15:55

but not everyone has done that. I haven't 'followed him around'. Am not observant enough to notice when other people are doing it though. Maybe I should follow them around to see

OP posts:
cory · 04/12/2009 15:57

NanaNina Fri 04-Dec-09 12:11:53
"JH - I think this time you have finally exposed yourself (as others have said here) for the fanatical unbalanced person that you actually are, and yes I agree your actions are driven by some personal vendetta. You actually alluded to this recently but have backtracked now."

That could be said of more than one person on this thread.

"As for all you posters who know absolutely nothing about child protection procedures and yet have the arrogance to think you are in a position to criticise and tell others how it should be done, you are not worththy of any response as far as I'm concerned."

Couple of points here:

a) Some of the posters of this thread know about SW/child protection issues through having been at the receiving end: you could argue that this does not give them the same kind of insights that you have, but you cannot argue that it gives them no knowledge at all.

b) It is not arrogance, in a democracy, to criticise the way public institutions are run; it is both our duty and our right: after all, we pay for those same institutions

We have a right to be informed and have a say in how social care is run, just as we have a right to have insights and a say in the education system- we pay for them, we use them, they belong to us. It is not arrogant to criticise SWs without being more, any more than it is arrogant to criticise the hospitals for recent failures without a degree in medicine, or to criticise failures in the school system without having teacher's qualifications. I am not a qualified secondary school teacher; yet I find I am allowed to criticise the failing academies in the education forum, without having a chorus of teachers complaining about my arrogance.

pofacedandproud · 04/12/2009 15:58

Only one person has been called a bully. Ok two when two people started planning how to get him fired together. And I've been labelled a JH 'supporter' and I'm no such a thing, but hey, I've been called worse.

pofacedandproud · 04/12/2009 15:59

No you haven't followed him around DJ that related to one person only.

cory · 04/12/2009 15:59

correction: "It is not arrogant to criticise SWs without being one"

wannaBe · 04/12/2009 16:11

but threatening people that if they pursue this they will lose their credibility on here is bullying, and that is exactly what Spero etc have been told on here.

Whatever people think of the sw's on this thread, they too are part of the electorate, and complaining about an mp's conduct is their democratic right. And as an MP JH is answerable to the electorate, and the electorate have a right to know if an mp's conduct is questionable.

At least they're going to the party leader rather than the press, because regardless of the content of the posts, I can imagine that "MP spends his days posting on parenting forums" would make for quite a headline. Am not saying btw that JH shouldn't be posting here, but I imagine there are quite a few people who would have something to say about an mp (any mp) who earns a £70000 a year salary spending the day posting on the internet.

pofacedandproud · 04/12/2009 16:14

well wannabe at least you apologised for posting an article about JH's personal life before it got deleted. NN doesn't and as no one has complained about it yet it still hasn't been removed. Do you regret apologising for posting it now?

pofacedandproud · 04/12/2009 16:23

oh someone has reported it.

NanaNina · 04/12/2009 16:51

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Message withdrawn

johnhemming · 04/12/2009 16:54

I don't mind being complained about. I don't feel bullied in any event.

What I am concerned about is a system which goes wrong a lot. It does some good and it does some harm.

I would like to reduce the harm.

It makes little difference that once four years ago that there was a proposal to put one of my children on the then child protection register which was rejected by a child protection conference. The social workers dealing with the case were so upset that they gave case papers to the Mail on Sunday. I know this because the MoS journalist told me - altough he didn't identify the individuals

I think the fact that I have personal experience of how arrogant some of the practitioners are made it possible for people to trust me and tell me the whole story.

What drives me is the thousands of injustices that go on in the family courts.

NanaNina · 04/12/2009 17:13

Cory - I don't disagree with what you say in your last post. Of course we all have a right to make our views known in the way you describe. The thing is though that criticims of any system, to be valid, need to be based on fact and the vast majority of criticisms on here are not based on fact. They are based on what people think happens, what they have read, or seen on TV, or heard from someone else. This is my what I am trying to challenge.

The criticisms of social work intervention in child protection are in my view based on the myth that social workers have the power to remove children on very dubious grounds, that they are insensitive to birth parents, they want to win in court, want to get children adopted to meet the targets, want to take children from decent parents whilst leaving others with parents who might harm them, and the judges merely "rubber stamp" social work decisions. Now if you believe that then I can see only too well why people will feel as they do about social workers, but I'm sorry this is NOT what happens. On another thread (if anyone is interested) I think it was the one about the GCSC I posted at length, itemising everything that has to happen before a child can be removed and after that has taken place. There was not a single comment about the content of that post other than derogatory comments about my tone or the length of the post or somesuch. I was in posting at such length honestly trying to demonstrate to posters exactly does happen in care proceedings, rather than what people believe happens.

I DO know that there have been some miscarriages of justice in the past. Dittany is for ever banging on about the MSBY debacle and she is right - medical evidence was given that was accepted by the court when it proved to be unsafe. There have been other cases that people have cited in Cleveland and the Orkneys, and these cases involved suspicion about sexual/ritualised abuse. Certainly in Cleveland it was distorted medical evidence at the root of the problem. In Orkney I think there was a totally inappropriate belief about satanic abuse which was never proven and YES mistakes were made. However these cases were many years ago and lessons have been learned. The 1989 Children Act came about more or less as a direct result of Cleveland and was the most comprehensive legislation related to children in the history of child care. In all professions, mistakes are made but to keep on using these things from the past to try to prove that children are "snatched" and adopted away from decent parents is I'm afraid simply not the case. JH is I think responsible for a lot of distorted information on here, and of course we now know he is driven by what happened to him personally but that doesn't make it any better that he is persisting in his quest to try to discredit all social work activity in relation to child protection.

To return to having a voice about public services, yes I often talk about the NHS with friends/relatives who work in the system and I have a son and dil and friends who are teachers. I have a friend who is a lawyer and another an accountant. I am happy to discuss with them in broad terms the nature of their jobs and by listening to them I learn more about the problems/frustrations for them of working in these organisations. However what I would not dream of doing is criticising say a lesson plan produced by a teacher, a way in which a nurse treated a patient, the way in which a lawyer represented her client or the way in which an accountant balanced the books (so to speak) simply because I do NOT have anything like enough information to make any of these kind of assertions. Indeed I would think it extremely arrogant of me if I tried to do so.

Does that make any sense at all.