Swiss vote to ban minarets in referendum

[mateykatie]

Switzerland has voted to ban the construction of mosque minarets in a national referendum. 57% supported the ban.

Here is the BBC story.

Women voted for the ban more than men according to the Times.

This seems pretty horrible to me. I always thought the Swiss were tolerant but obviously not.

I was going to say DRayford I bet the same is the case in a rural or monocultural area. I here my rather delightful Dorset pupils say things they would never say or even think if they lived in a city.

Nuff said Morosky!

Where was daftpunks venom towards the muslim faith on this thread??

AND there was alot of anit catholic feeling in the 70's following the birmingham bombings etc ( i am a catholic in birmngham the 'grown ups' from that time still talk about this.)

Not saying all this is therfore excusable but when people become fearful of another group there will be a reaction.

Many people in the west are afraid of Islam, which is what this vote is really about imo.

We were discussing immigration the other day in class and one lad had a moan about all those Italians coming over to steal our women.

Maybe his Bircher Muesli wasn't up to scratch this morning!!! (sorry to be glib, but can't imagine many swiss men I know who would rip up 20 minuten in anger!!!!! )

PS Where are you living Harpy?

In which Muslim countries is there an unfettered freedom of worship, church building, etc. for non-Muslims?

Switzerland only gave women the vote in 1971, fgs.

This vote didn't surprise me in the least, tbh.

Christ some of the posts on this thread are depressing. I do not understand the mentality that comes up with the argument "well Islamic countries aren't exactly tolerant, so why should we/the Swiss be?". Do you really not know why?

Harpy Bern (canton/capital of the very slow people). I think you'll like Aargau better (Zurich is full of wankers bankers ) I just couldn't live in Switzerland though, they all go to bed to early!

BellaGaveSantaAGoose actually - the Canton of Vaud gave women the vote in 1959 (bit slow I grant you though!) and the Canton of Appenzell Ausserrhoden only gave women the vote in 1989 following legal action from the Swiss Federal Courts. Another reason why I really don't want to live in Switzerland!!!!

Zephrine - I don't think the swiss or the british should be Intolerant. But the OP was talking about minarets, not religious tolerance.

Perhaps we should all be Buddhist, the only religion that seems to encompass and tolerate all other religions!

We are lucky in western europe to actually have freedom of speech (natch mumsnet!) Could all the above posters express their opinions in some of the fundamentalist Islamic states on this planet I wonder?

However, Islam is not a threatening or terrifying religion - it is a deeply spiritual religion and a way of life for many followers and that should be respected, whatever your personal creed.

ZephirineDrouhin, I agree with you that we should have higher standards of tolerance and decency than the Islamic countries you refer to. It would be awful if we became like them.

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick Onagar - but I don't quite get your point??? Do you actually know anything about Islam? What do you deem to be an Islamic Country? And what do you mean about becoming like them?

".I think the "two wrongs don't make a right" logic prevails though..."

No but in the great scheme of things it equals things nicely.

At least the Swiss have a democracy and are able to vote on issues.

Should any faith entering a 'host' country expect to be able to build religious buildings?

Who wanted a moonie temple next door to them?
The church of Jedi?
Scientology?

You can argue that those three examples are 'strange' religions but any unfamiliar practice is 'strange' to an outsider.

If people want host countries to allow their religion to 'fit in' then firstly they should allow themselves to 'fit in' to the host countries way of life, call it tit for tat or a compromise or even a mutual respect.

Look at the what happened in Luton today to Baroness Warsi, a handful of misfits and radicals shouting down a woman on the street for her views, intollerence at it's worst and why, because she fits into this country's way of life, because she is a woman who has made a life for herself, how dare they shout her down and pelt her with eggs because she doesn't hold the same radical views as them, how dare they boo returning troops, is it any wonder when other countries see what happens here, what the radicals are allowed to get away with that they are scared of what could happen in their own backyard.

If we deported the radicals from this country then the likes of Griffin wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

The swiss have voted and the outcome should be respected, it is after all their country to run how they see fit.

If we deported the radicals from this country then the likes of Griffin wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Not so. They wanted to deport the Jews, then it was the blacks, now it is Muslims.

We would have to deport A LOT of people to make Griffin and his ilk go away.

Atlantis - are you really comparing Islam with Jedi, Moonies, Scientology??????

Islam is hardly a "strange" religion. Are Jews, Mormons, Buddhists strange????

Drayford - I think you are missing Atlantis' point. The issue is not whether Islam compares to the Jedi or Scientology beliefs, but that it is difficult for the secular authorities to grant anything to one religious group without treating others equally. You might argue that Christianity does not appear to be subject to this in Switzerland. This might be so, but then rightly or wrongly it is perceived as being their religion, part of their tradition. It's not so long ago that all other faiths were persecuted in Europe.

And for what it's worth, I think you are being disingenuous, or using a red herring argument by saying that Islam is not strange or not like the Jedis, etc. Firstly, for many people, all religion is a matter of superstition, and therefore they are all 'strange'. Secondly, I should think that for a large majority of people in Western countries, Islam is indeed 'strange' merely by virtue of being something they are largely ignorant of.

Lastly, I agree with Atlantis that a lot of people will feel resentful towards what they see as Islamic intolerance while they are expected to be accomodating. We can talk all we like about 2 wrongs not making a right, but the fact remains that it is a perfectly understandable and human reaction.

I also disagree with your description of Islam, but that has very little to do with the discussion at hand and should perhaps be reserved for another thread.

can i just say every religion and creed should be seen in isolation if humanly possible! For if we were to go by its followers per se we would find so much discrepancy it is crazy..Muslim countries are just as hard on "fundamental" muslims as others..for example in Tunisia wome are banned from wearing the hijab and people are locked up and tortured for displaying extreme devotion to the faith..so although tunisia claims it is a muslim country it is not really to many other muslims..then in Sauid Arabia women are forced to wear hijab in its extreme form although Saudia Arabia claims to be the head of all muslim countries..but then saudia arabia doeas not represent true islam to many other muslims..i am sure it is the same for all the other major faiths of the world too. Everybody will interpret religion in different ways and claim they know all..therefore it is probably useless to debate religion from this point at all.

Saraya - 'every religion and creed should be seen in isolation if humanly possible'

I don't actually think this is possible. Of course our perceptions of a religion are coloured by its followers. How can an outsider look at a creed in isolation when even its followers cannot agree on exactly what that creed constitutes?

Riven - if Iran truly allowed freedom of worship, they would allow Muslims to freely leave Islam, whereas in reality apostates are persecuted.