Swiss vote to ban minarets in referendum

[mateykatie]

Switzerland has voted to ban the construction of mosque minarets in a national referendum. 57% supported the ban.

Here is the BBC story.

Women voted for the ban more than men according to the Times.

This seems pretty horrible to me. I always thought the Swiss were tolerant but obviously not.

I agree stuffitlllama. Very nicely put. A lot of people don't want change AT ALL, whether related to religion or building a dam across a river or giving women the vote. These things take time.

but WHAT is changing - I don't get it.

At the end of the day (and I honestly mean no offence to any of the Muslims on here this is a purely aesthetical point)

IT'S A PRETTY POINTY BIT ON TOP OF A BUILDING

they have them on churches, houses, and gawd knows what else over there already - look at the picture on the BBC link. HOW is that miniaret (and lets not forget there are only 4 in the country as it is)

How many people in the UK thnk that "Muslim=asian people" - I'd say a large % of people think that way. White converts are in the minority. I'm sure the situation is much the same, if not worse in Switzerland.

Just because you dress it up as religious intolerance doesn't mean that it's not fuelled by racism.

Democracy isn't always nice.

blurghhh - need coffee - I meant to say look a the picutre on the BBC link - how does that minaret look so much different to the spire in the background of the photo.

Because, alexpolismum, there is something called universal values, like tolerance, for example?

If tolerance should be universal, winnybella, perhaps you should show some to the Swiss who, as stuffitlllama also said, are simply resisting change. One reason I think that Griffin has gained in popularity in the UK is that change has happened too quickly for a lot of people, and they can't handle it. Things take time to change.

I am not saying I agree with them, just trying to understand where they are coming from.

I agree incidentally, with whoever said that Islamic intolerance should not be used to justify other people's intolerance. Two wrongs don't make a right. But it does help to understand how many people feel about it.

I am about to move to Switzerland, already far from excited about it, and this has really depressed me

alexpolismum, I will not argue with you about where it comes from, point is the end result is racist (I know it's a religion, not race, but let's be honest, who do Swiss have in mind when they think about muslims?).
And tolerance being universal doesn't mean I should extend it to any xenophobic behaviour.

I suppose I'm just suprised at naeity of the people that vote "yes" to banning the building of minarets - I mean if they're really worried about Sharia Law coming and the growing Muslim population there what is banning minarets going to do to stop that number growing (apart from Islamic people perhaps not wanting to move to Switzerland in such a hurry).

I don't think the Mosque in our town as a minaret - tbh I've never really looked. But even if it does and they took it off - doesn't mean that the Muslims will suddenly disappear.

From where I'm sat it looks like the far right SVP has run it's campaign based on a "if you say it's ok for them to build minarets then Sharia law is coming". Which is a bit daft really as if the Swiss Muslims wanted to push for Sharia law then not having minarets is going to sod all to stop it.

I agree with you alex. Things take time. Perhaps this is a reaction to the intolerance which Muslim countries are known to publicly exercise: who knows, but obviously the Swiss have been very slow to take to a lot of progressive moves which we think of as normal. Perhaps it is powered by fear of the unknown: if people fear intolerance they will react intolerantly themselves. It seems from the connection of the minaret with Sharia law this could be the case.

Perhaps they look at other countries where change has been slow but continuous: for example non Muslim countries where there have been calls for Sharia law to be recognised: and therefore they see a minaret as the thin end of the wedge.

Perhaps this can be compared to the ban in Britain of the prayer calls. I believe prayer calls are banned in the early morning under nuisance laws? Correct me if this is not the case. Are minarets absolutely essential for a Muslim to worship, if prayer calls are not?

I wonder what result a similar (hypothetical, obviously) referendum would get in the UK?

Always, not everyone is like you. It's wrong to say everyone should be like you, and if they're not, well sod em, they're racist and wrong and don't deserve to be considered. People take time to come to terms with new cultures : it takes time for misperceptions to be dissolved. An aggressive reaction to this decision a la cartoons/Denmark issue will simply confirm the Swiss view that the Muslim culture is a bullying culture which will resort to violence to get its way.

Tolerance is most emphatically not a universal value.

TheShriekingHarpy: What reasons do you think there might be, if they aren't simple racists ones? Assuming that you are living in a country where planning permission is already necessary so any concerns about the architectural merits are irrelevant as they are already covered.

I'd just like an example of a non-racist reason

That's a good point, stuffitllllama. Who knows, perhaps they are looking at the example of Britain!

As far as I am aware, neither minarets nor prayer calls are essential for Muslims to worship.

The decision applies to all citizens - black, white, or brwon - none of them can build minarets. It isn't racist.

Personally, I think it's a vote against Islam and all it appears to stand for (at least to a majority of Swiss people).

I can't believe anyone is shocked by this. I mean, this is a country that hid millions of pounds stolen from European Jews by Nazis.

oh yes this change thing - "oh they're not ready for the change lets be tolerant"

ok - so lets extend the same thing to the Afghan people who think it's ok to oppress women to the extent of starving their wifes if they refuse to have sex with them,

or perhaps we should stop being aghast places that still practice female circumsicion,

or closer to home in the Western world - "aww those poor Americans" - who are unhappy about having a black President, we really should be sympathetic to them shouldn't we.

oh come on - how many people that voted "yes" do you think associate "Islam" with anything other than "foreigners with dark skin"???

Even here in the UK the overwhelming majority of Muslims are from ethnic minorities and most people associate Islam with ethnic minorities . - hands up those of you who know a white Muslim (and no Riven doesn't count as we all know her ).

Indeed, alwayslookingforanswers, cultural relativism is indeed intellectually dishonest. Perhaps there are Swiss voters who do not like Islamic practices who would agree with you.

I reiterate: it takes time to bring about change. This does not mean it should not happen or that we should agree with those who are opposed to it, whether it be men in Afghanistan or American white supremacists. It just means that we can understand some of their motivation. Perhaps we will be better able to challenge these attitudes and practices if we understand something of the underlying issues.

Women not getting the vote?

I'm sure that women only got hte vote in Switzerland in 1971

Still, don't they have nice creches or something?