Swiss vote to ban minarets in referendum

[mateykatie]

Switzerland has voted to ban the construction of mosque minarets in a national referendum. 57% supported the ban.

Here is the BBC story.

Women voted for the ban more than men according to the Times.

This seems pretty horrible to me. I always thought the Swiss were tolerant but obviously not.

'In which Muslim countries is there an unfettered freedom of worship, church building, etc. for non-Muslims?' - "Iran"

There's nothing tolerant about Iran when it comes to other faiths - not since the time of the Shah. Apostacy is punishable by death.

"A month ago [1998], the Iranian parliament voted in favour of a draft bill, entitled "Islamic Penal Code", which would codify the death penalty for any male Iranian who leaves his Islamic faith. Women would get life imprisonment. The majority in favour of the new law was overwhelming: 196 votes for, with just seven against."

Here.

If they were born here then they're British, so we've got British people questioning the "British way of life".

Are we not allowed to do that?

Personally I don't agree with them, but still they've got the right to question.

If British people didn't question the "British way of life" then we'd still be living as nomads and trying to hunt mammoths, which would be more than a bit tricky.

So thank heavens that British people have continuously questioned the "British way of life"!

where were the anti-fascist protestors when those extremists were attacking a woman for having her own mind..?

all those protestors that attack NG for his views seem remarkable silent over incidents like this one.....

Interseting article in today's Times.

Here.

(Extract)
"Switzerland?s referendum vote to ban minarets is needlessly xenophobic but it does not infringe the religious liberty of Swiss Muslims. Minarets remain emblematic of mosques in the Muslim heartlands but there is no theological reason why houses of worship in the West have to incorporate such towers....

...Muslims who have settled in Switzerland (and elsewhere in Europe) should not confuse culture with creed. To become integrated into their surroundings, they must relinquish the cultural baggage of their ancestral homelands. They should practice a Swiss Islam that is rooted in the society in which they live.

Although the Swiss have been convinced by right-wing zealots that minarets are a problem, local Muslims should not embrace a victim mentality. They must confront the toxic radicalisation of their faith that is imported from overseas."

Noooooooooooooo !!! Don't abolish the house of Lords; they're one of the few sane areas of government left (against all logic, but anyway). It makes me thoroughly upset that we no longer have "Law Lords", but a Supreme Court instead. It's just not the same "Supreme Court Justices" vs. "Law Lords". Law Lords sound like something out of Lord of the Rings.

Scarlet Lily Bug, I read that article as well and it was, imo, very sensibly put.

alexpolismum you are right it is hardly possible to view religion in isolation in life in general..however when we choose to examine and debate a religious issue it would help to do so fro all parties involved. Many -in fact too many- Muslims know SO little about their faith it is disturbing and this affects how they are perceived by non muslims for sure which is why when non Muslims choose to seriously debate a matter of religious contention it would help the debate to view it in isolation first then compare that with what the followers choose to follow.In many instances culture is confused with creed as the new artcile wisely stresses and this is true amongst muslims where they practice cultural aspects with such tenacity and devotion to suggest it is religion when it is not.and yet culture does have a certain "sanctity" does it not? which is a subject for yet another very serious debate!!!

just symbolic Riven...when i think of Switzerland i think "white"..probably because of all the beautiful white snow....the black sheep is just a symbol of something that would have ruined the scenery......cold have been anything really.

you know some people will look for racism everywhere....they are almost obsessed..

Diane Abbott being referred to as a chocolate hobnob and Michael Portillo a custard cream for example.....that was considered racist...

hang on Riven having a problem with my

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu's

need to type a few words with "u" in them

fuck all to do with snow....

er, i disagree...

I do agree with the Times article, but it can be difficult to give up your culture when moving to a new country, even though you chose to move there. I moved from SA, and will never be totally "British". Admittedly, South African is hardly the most exotic and different of cultures, but there are differences. I can imagine it is even more difficult if the cultural differences are part of your religion as well (for better or worse) and form a significant part of your identity. A good example is if, say, Christians who move to a muslim country would continue to celebrate Christmas with Father Christmas etc. etc. Father Christmas is not actually mentioned anywhere in the Bible and is a later addition, as is arguably Christmas. So now, should Christians in non-Christian countries give up celebrating it, and just stick to the purely religious aspects?

seriously Riven, the Swiss had concerns at how the buildings would effect the traditional scenery of Switzerland.....there's rarely just one reason for decisions....i think people need to be more aware and open minded about that....not everything is "racist"

Good point Serenity, all the places I've lived the expats live a largely separate life but that's mainly because they are moving on. The long stayers integrate.

But short term or long term stayers, generally there's a view that you're in another country, and you can have a bit of a moan, but basically if you don't like it you can leave. To be colloquial, it's like, duh. Why are you here if you don't accept the way things are? You're a tax paying guest and you have to accept things the way they are there and the way the home population wants it.

I am thinking of Brits who go to places like Spain (normally the ones moaning about Britain being ruined by immigrants, I'm leaving ) and continue to live as if they're in the UK, only with more sunshine. Apparently it's a big problem in places like Normandy where people refuse to integrate into the local community, learn to speak the local language etc. etc. and cause problems. It goes both ways. And also, yes, the expat communities in places like Dubai where they expect to be able to drink alcohol and so on, even though it's not a religious requirement, and is actually forbidden in the host country.
(sorry if this does not make much sense; my brain is switching off)

oh well, my experience is kinda different

The swiss tolerant?
Has anybody lived there? It is an extremely conservative society. Very protective of its "culture" (for lack of a better word - I would rather use "folkore" but that sounds a bit condescending?)

What this shows is a real fear of Islam in europe and a profound misunderstanding of the changing demographics in Europe. Islam is no longer a foreign" religion. Islam is a european religion. The numbers are growing and this last episode is just another one on the long list that simply antagonises muslims in europe and drives them further into comunitarism.

If they are repeatedly told they will not be accepted (when they are born and bread 2nd and 3rd generation now) how can they blend in?
In Rome do as the romans?
Well most muslims in europe have bloody well been trying for the past three generations, have they only been given a chance?

"Integration policies" have totally failed these immigrants AND the indigenous communities where they were settled. A total social and economic disaster.
Radical islam is not the precipitating factor for this sad state of affairs. its the consequence.

Honestly, a vote about minarets defacing the pastoral scenery? what a hypocrite joke!

alexpoli - "Freedom of worship" has little to do with "freedom to leave Islam". Quran is very clear that the latter is not to be tolerated among Muslims.

Freedom of worship means you are free to worship whom or what you choose.

Apostasy law in practice results in cases like a Chinese baby swapped at birth with a Malay baby in Malaysia. He found at later in life, but was legally not allowed to renounce his faith. Also, if you are a Malay, you are legally deemed to be Muslim, simply on account of the colour of your skin/your race.