Parents lose right of withdrawal of their children from Sex and Relationship Education once they reach 15.

[Thandeka]

Please discuss your reactions to this news as I would be very interested to read them.

Personally I think this is a great thing but then I am biased as I work in young people's sexual health.

P.S "Parental opt out" is a much better word sorry as "withdrawal isn't necessarily a good word to use in relation to sex ed- hehe!

I am a parent for life MillyMollyMoo!!! My youngest is now 18yrs and of course he is out in the big wide world, he is at university over 200 miles from home. Am I supposed to keep him tied to my apron strings? I do not know what he is doing at this minute-I don't know where he will be going tonight or what time he will be in. He is an adult-my job has been to prepare him for that. Your DC can walk out of your door at 18 and go to Thailand-if they have the money you can't stop them!
I have 3 mature, sensible, emotionally well balanced DCs. They see me because they enjoy my company and we can chat about anything. I have led by example and they have the same values-I have not rammed them down their throats and stopped them listening to other views.
I don't call sending an 18 yr old off to university, going wrong, failing as a parent or considering my job done!

I am hoping and praying they will be at University but not 200 miles away and certainly not get pissed in city centre's and bonking random men, I may be wishfully thinking but I'm rather hoping mine will come home every night to the same beds they'll sleep in tonight.

Not really? You'll be encouraging your children to stay at home instead of going to the universtiy of their own choice?

How old are they now MMM? I think you may run into problems with that attitude.
My DS didn't go to get away from home-he went because he was passionate about the course he is doing and nowhere offered a better one. I could bet you money that he isn't getting pissed, it makes him sick fairly soon and so he is a very moderate drinker and I also doubt whether he is bonking random women-he is the serious commitment type. If he were determined to do both it is too late for me to control-he has, what I have aimed for from the start, self control. I still maintain that if he didn't have it by 15yrs it is too late. He isn't easily led-he does his own thing and I am proud of him.

MillyMollyMoo Fri 06-Nov-09 18:00:01

"I completely disagree with that statement and quite frankly mine will not be out in the world at 18"

So how do you propose to stop them if they decide that they want to go to university or take a job or do a training scheme at the other end of the country? And what reason have you to believe that your children will not be capable of behaving like responsible adults when they have reached the age of adulthood?

Are you really saying you would try to stop them from doing the degree they really wanted to, to enter the professions of their dream, just because you thought it important that they should still be sleeping in the same beds?

I am very thankful that my parents did not share your ideas, but concentrated on encouraging me to think for myself, with the result that I was ready to stand on my own feet once I reached adulthood.

I am a very meek and mild and easy going person but my mother would have had a huge rebellion on her hands if she hadn't treated me as an adult at 18yrs!

"but not 200 miles away and certainly not get pissed in city centre's and bonking random men, I may be wishfully thinking but I'm rather hoping mine will come home every night to the same beds they'll sleep in tonight"

blimey, really?
I guess there is every chance they will do that as it's so expensive to move out of home and into a hall of residence or student housing but what if the courses they want to do are far away?

When I left for Uni (the year before they scrapped grants) I chose the four furthest away ones because I actively wanted to live as far away from my parents as possible.

For what it's worth I didn't have sex with anyone at university! I was pretty straight in that respect and only lost my virginity a long time after I graduated.

Student life doesn't always mean promiscuous sex and to be honest if your kids are going to be promiscuous then they will probably start a lot earlier than 18.

I have got in comparatively late on this thread.

Frankly i was overjoyed by the headlines - it means that, for once, the State is standing up for what it believes is right instead of pandering to pressure groups who really have no palce intervening in public education.

No one should have the right to withdraw children from any part of the school curriculum on religious grounds. I think that parents who want to do so should home educate or put their children in (private) religious schools rather than interfere with the curriculum which is aimed at being of maximum use to the majority.

But then, as you know, I don't think religion has pa place in state education full stop.

MMM - shouldn't you be thinking of what's best for your DC in a larger sense? What if they want to do a specialised course that's only available in certain centres?

What if they want to go to Oxbridge?

What if they want to do foreign languages and study in an institution abroad?

What if they are offered a Rhodes scholarship and the chance of a lifetime to study across the world?

Besides which, part of going to university is learning to live alone in a controlled way - with support from your institution and regular visits home to stock up on home comforts.

I really hope you change your attitude before your DCs get much older because by encouraging them to stay so close to home, you might end up seriously limiting their emotional and academic development, as well as their career prospects.

It's a parent's job to give their DC the values and skills to deal with the world in a responsible way wherever they are. You shouldn't need to keep them 2 feet away to have confidence in their judgement.

Me too DuelingFanjo!-I went right through university without losing my virginity, but it was only because I didn't meet the right person. However, that was my choice, if I had wanted to be promiscuous it would have had nothing whatever to do with my mother!
I think it is much better that people work out their own morality etc in their teens-people with over controlling parents often have problems (serious ones in some cases) later in life.

Pisces - perhaps your son is out bonking random women, as you say, you don't know. But at least with a decent sex education behind him (and obviously with a strong supportive mother ) it is more likely that he will know the risks, hopefully take steps to minimise them, and not put himself in a compromising position!

I think that anyone who is afraid of sex education for their children

1. Has very little confidence in their own parenting, if they really believe a 30 minute lesson from a teacher will undo years of parenting.

2. Is incredibly naive about all the other sources of information their child will be exposed to.

"but really-if your 15yr old isn't sensible and mature and able to hold a reasoned argument and make up their own mind- it is too late,"
" They should have achieved self control by 15yrs-or you have failed as a parent IMO."

I don't agree with these statements.
People develop at different rates. There are some immature 18yo never mind 15yo. It doesn't mean they are still going to be immature at 25y.

If he wants to bonk random women MissM I accept that I can't stop him! Neither can MillyMollyMoo-even with iron control they can find a way around it, if they want to. He is very like me and much too shy at 18yrs-but as you say it is very important that if he were to step right out of character- he has had a decent sex education. He also knows all sorts and all opinions-I am pleased that he doesn't feel the need to do it just to fit in. Lots of people at university do not spend their time drinking and bonking! They manage it without their mother supervising!

TYV: Actually, most people who are frantic to prevent their DC learning about sex - or ever having it - are either sexually dysfunctional themselves (frequently messed up by too much superstition) or they have an unhealthily possessive attitude towards their DC's sexuality. Is there anything more revoltingly creepy than those Yank father-daughter pledge events?

There is always time to change juuule, but I would be very disappointed if mine hadn't developed self control and a certain amount of common sense by 15yrs. I would also be disappointed if they thought they had to follow the herd to fit in. I also think you should bear in mind that they can legally get married and have a DC within months of the proposed sex education lesson.
Theyoungvisitor has a good point-you parent from birth so you must have made a pretty poor job of it if you are frightened of a 30 min sex education lesson, or even a series of sex education lessons. I also think that people are very naive if you think your DC will be untouched by other information-they will get masses (often of a dubious nature)from friends. I would expect that any DCs withdrawn will get graphic explanations from the rest of the class!

Maybe yours have self-control and a certain amount of common-sense. But that's not going to be true across the board.
While 16yo can legally get married surely that's to cover the more developmentally advanced 16yo or the more sexually active. That doesn't mean that all 16yo are ready or wanting to take those routes.
Some 15yo (even if it's a minority) might feel uncomfortable talking about private issues in an open classroom among their peers. That doesn't mean they don't ask questions at home. It doesn't mean they are not being informed by their parents/relatives/close friends/trusted people about relationships etc.
While I wouldn't withdraw my children I am very uneasy about making sre compulsory.

They only have it because I treat them as if they have it. I don't expect to control every aspect of their lives, including what they think. I wouldn't advise any 16yr old, however mature, to get married and I definitely wouldn't want them to have a DC. I expect many wouldn't feel comfortable asking a question or talking about private issues -I was about 26yrs before I could do it! However this was no reason to shield me from it, and you learn a lot from quietly listening and observing. We are not all extroverts. Lots of people can have an input-it doesn't have to be either/or. I mixed with all sorts- some were sexually active very early-I didn't feel that I needed to follow suit. It depends what you are comfortable with.
My mother didn't believe in sex before marriage, she has mellowed now that it is the norm but certainly not when I was 15yrs, but I do-I am not a clone of my mother-there is no reason for me to think the same.
I hate the idea that the parent must have control of their DCs thoughts-I think it is healthy to have lots of views, even if you disagree with them.

And the ones who do ask questions and can find things out in other ways but feel uncomfortable talking about it in a group should they be able to opt out themselves?

Juules - surely the answer is for the teacher to take student sensitivities into account when teaching (which they should be doing anyway) not to allow students (or parents) to pick and choose from the curriculum.

Where does that end - allowing students to get out of PE because they feel uncomfortable running?

Allowing students of German origin to opt out of history classes because they feel uncomfortable discussing WW2?

Allowing creationists to opt out of geography because they don't want to learn about fossils and carbon dating?

Part of education is about stepping out of your comfort zone and finding out whether your beliefs stand up to scrutiny. I seriously doubt sex ed is going to involve forcing blushing students to discuss position of the fortnight. It strikes me some people have very odd/twisted ideas of what sex education involves. Did you all go to school in the 1950s?

The Times article on the issue today says that the Catholic church is not happy with this so it is not correct to state that it is only Islam that has expressed outrage.

Running, geography, ww2, fossils and the like are not usually something that people consider to be a part of their private life, though, so I do think that that sex and relationships are a different matter.

No it might not be postion of the week that's discussed but there may be things that some students find uncomfortable in open discussion. After all, some do become uncomfortable during some biology lessons.

However, I do accept that I'm not sure what SRE lessons consist of (apart from snippets from my teens). I should probably ask them for more details. Or perhaps it would be an idea for schools to run workshops for parents to let them know just what is entailed. Perhaps that would put everyone's minds at ease.

You are quite right when you say that teachers should take their students sensitivities into account. But is that likely to happen given the numbers of students passing through the lessons each week?

I'm not interested in iron control but I have seen families where the children attend the local university and do just as well as those who rack up thousands in debt living away from home. And those kids ended up with good degrees, good jobs and happily married.
Frankly with University course costs going through the roof the tradition of spending three years with your head down the loo vomiting alchol and legs in the air will be coming to an end I hope.
I used to process medical claims for overseas students and the most common claim was abortion.
If people think lack of sex education is the reason for our high teen pregnancy rates then I despair and cannot see them changing anytime soon.

What a depressing picture MillyMollyMoo-luckily not one I recognise. If you have such a poor view of teenagers I'm not surprised that you want them at home.

DH is a teacher and had to do PHSE with his students three years ago when we lived in London. He hated doing it.

He felt uncomfortable with a lot of the subjects, having received no training on them at all (he's a languages teacher). Plus, he said that there's a huge long list of topics to cover in PHSE and no-one cares which one you do, so he just avoided all the "difficult" ones (puberty, sex, etc) and instead did all his PHSE classes on "friends" and "peer pressure" and so on and so forth.

So, from his experience, it looks like how the national curriculum, at least as far as PHSE goes, is being applied fairly haphazardly.