Biscuitgate and what it really tells us about the Gordon Brown and more importantly, the meedja

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello all - hope you will forgive me a little rant about biscuits!

Yesterday Biscuitgate reached PMQs, with a jolly quip from David Cameron about the Prime Minister not being able to decide the biscuits for his bunker and thereby cemented its place in the folklore as a paradigm example of either Gordon Brown's indecisiveness or Gordon Brown's insincerity or Gordon Brown's cowardice, depending on your point of view.

Influential right-wing blogger Ian Dale gleefully penned Gordon Brown's Top 10 Ever Dithers and ranked Biscuitgate number three. Star political columnist Rachel Sylvester concluded in the Times: "It fits a pattern of dithering." The Sun screamed Jammie Dodger! and paraphrased MadameDefarge's tongue-in-cheek remark: "Maybe he's consulting advisers on the most vote-winning biscuit to admit liking." And Sam Leith in the Standard, bless him, said it was all Gordon's own fault for coming on Mumsnet anyway: "If the forums you choose for public engagement are Mumsnet and GMTV's sofa, rather than the Today programme and Newsnight, these are the sorts of questions you must expect to answer."

Now I can't say I often find myself feeling sorry for politicians but I have to admit to feeling more than a pang of sympathy for the PM over the past few days. Because the truth is that Gordon Brown didn't follow the live chat on the screen directly - he answered the questions grouped and fed to him by MNHQ and his advisors. He didn't avoid the biscuit question because it didn't cross his path (as I said on Radio 5 on the day, in fact).

Why did we do it that way? Well, there were so many questions and they were coming in thick and fast on every subject under the sun, so we reasoned that the most effective way of getting as much ground covered as possible was to group them together for him, rather than him answering random ones that he happened to notice.

We had a pile as long as your arm on subjects ranging from climate change to childcare vouchers to treatment of asylum seekers. After he'd covered a question he would immediately demand, "What next?" Occasionally, we'd squeeze in a light-hearted one - for example about what movies he wanted to see - but we were conscious of not merely focusing on frivolities. Fun as biscuits are, access to the Prime Minister is precious and we would have hated to waste time on Rich Tea Fingers at the expense of miscarriage or school starting age. Plus, of course, we'd rather not be seen as a soft touch in the GMTV sofa mould.

That's not to say Biscuitgate didn't reveal something about the Prime Minister. I strongly suspect that Mumsnetters resorted to asking about biscuits repeatedly towards the end of the chat because they were frustrated at being fed chunks of official policy rather than being engaged with directly. It's hard, of course, to keep up with the banter on a board like ours - particularly if you're not reading the actual chat and you're a Mumsnet virgin.

But the truth is it has come more naturally to other politicians to speak to and emotionally connect with Mumsnetters. That, I think, is a fair criticism of Gordon Brown, as is a a certain brusqueness, intermittently displayed during his visit. What is unfair is that Biscuitgate proves just how indecisive or insincere Gordon Brown is - he might be of course - what do I know? But there was absolutely nothing he did during his visit to Mumsnet Towers to suggest it.

In fact the real message of Biscuitgate is that whatever you do or say as a Prime Minister can and will be woven into any commentator's particular beef or agenda, in order to prove their point.
Who'd be a politician, eh?

[inveteratenamechanger]

BTW, good OP, Justine.

[thepumpkineater]

I think its only the media and Westminster (and mumsnet) who are interested in this story. Suspect the Great British Public couldn't give a toss what sort of biscuit GB likes. I certainly don't care.

[JustineMumsnet]

Well we didn't really need to put questions to Dave C Dittany - he was following on the screen and typing his answers himself - there were fewer questions too. Nick Clegg has never actually been on - another piece of ace reporting.

And it wasn't clear that GB wouldn't be following on a laptop before we begun - there was a screen available but as it turns out he didn't really watch it perhaps because as PM you are accustomed to people acting as intermediaries, I don't really know...

[SquirrelTrap]

How come everyone is so aghast that papers follow their own agendas and spin things to suit their agenda? Surely we all know this and are able to apply a basic level of critical analysis to any columnists' 'work'.

The question was shite. It was more GMTV than Paxo. I am glad it was not put to him.

Our media are a disgrace, and I for one have missed all the coverage because I can't be arsed listening to and reading all their utter crap.

Why was it not put to DC and NC - because they are not the Prime Minister, and have never been in government making important decisions ( and hopefully never will) and it is more acceptable to ask them trivial questions because they themselves are trivial and superficially charming.

[BalloonSlayer]

Am I being allowed to speculate that Gordon Brown didn't read the questions on the screen because of his eyesight?

I have read that he has to have things in massive print. Not a failing IMO (I have said this before) but obviously a problem if he has to rely on flunkies to read out questions for him.

TBH I don't feel all that sorry for him re the PMQ biscuit jibe. It's a totally trivial thing to get teased about. " Is that the best the nasty boys can do?" springs to mind.

[MadameDefarge]

well, Dittany I agree it seems unfair, given what we know now. But we didn't know it then, and pressing on the biscuit question was a way of pushing for a least one answer that was unscripted...it wasn't simply an empty headed bit of nonsense, and it was played with rather amusingly...

Many many serious questions were asked, I think Justine said there were over 800 posts, of which a handful were about biscuits...in the fine tradition of MN taking the piss when we have the piss taken out of us.

If that is misinterpreted by others, so be it. I would not want to lose the slightly anarchic MN attitude re the Emperors New Clothes of your average politicians direct interaction with the public.

And also, it was a webchat for parents on mumnet, many of whom might have questions for the PM completely unrelated to politics - did I miss the bit where it said policy webchat only?

And I for one would be unhappy if we had to swear not to ask lighter questions. If I want party line quotes I know where to go for those, I want a bit more from a webchat.

[BalloonSlayer]

Am I allowed

not

Am I being allowed

agh!

[BalloonSlayer]

Dittany, re my post, I don't think he could read the thread himself.

See this article about his eyesight.

Particularly this bit: "There were unconfirmed reports late last year that Mr Brown's sight was deteriorating. One report quoted the Prime Minister's close friends as revealing that he can only see extremely large print and has needed guidance at public events. There were suggestions that if he falls or bumps into something, the retina in his good eye could fail and he would risk complete blindness. He recently had to have a cataract removed. "

So what does he do -

have people say he can't do the job properly as he can't see properly (which is rubbish but plenty would say it)

or

have people say he is too grand to read his own messages

[MadameDefarge]

If fact, Mumsnet has simply continued the fine British tradition of politician bating that has made our democratic history so vibrant and empowering...I'm thinking of the whigs and the tories going to the hustings to drum up support, who frequently were taken to task for their actions very vociferously.

So much of contemporary politics is moderated by spin and distance, I think its actually very refreshing to have some real time sparring and drollery mixed up for them to deal with.

So while I feel bad that GB had a hard time based upon an untruth, that is not our responsibility - It is just unfortunate that for him this untruth seemed to illustrate a perceived truth, and as Justine says, once the meeja have their own party line, nothing with deter them, and there are frequent casualties along the way...

[BalloonSlayer]

Ha! sorry Dittany, it has taken me ages to post due to toddler harrassment and in the meantime you'd x-posted!

[ProfessorLaytonIsMyZombieSlave]

Hang on, Justine -- Nick Clegg's definitely been on. I remember 'cos he was crap.

Yes, here he is. Did Carrie not tell you ?

He didn't mention biscuits, though.

[morningpaper]

Yes I remember Nick Clegg

'Twas when he was campaigning for leadership IIRC, not when he wa party leader

He didn't mention biscuits although covered kinky sex and fruit shoots

[AitchTwoToTangOh]

nobody asked david cameron about biscuits, i checked. he did however say that he liked abba and coldplay when asked about his favourite music.

he and clegg were asked later, by the times i think. and camo came up with oatcakes, ffs. which Aren't Even A Biscuit imo (i will deny this in front of my children however. ditto ricecakes.)

[Georgimama]

Why did MN pretend then that he was doing a live webchat, and choosing which questions to respond to, if in fact the questions were being edited and he was responded to an edited selection?

Why wasn't this made clear?

And could it be made clear please, whether the non fluffy mummy questions on the economy and Afghanistan that he didn't answer were not put to him, or whether he chose not to answer them?

[AvrilH]

Were the many questions on house prices actually put to the PM?

[ronshar]

Nick Clegg & David Cameron were asked by the Times almost imediately about the biscuits. It appeared in the Saturday times. The first I knew about the whole biscuit scandal.
I also knew that GB would give the same shite non answer to my question as DC and Ed Balls.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

This is why I dont read the papers anymore - they are full of shit, mis-reprenentation or unoriginal ideas.

[ElfOnTheTopShelf]

or... mis-representation

this is why I dont write for the papers - I cant spell

[HuwEdwards]

My only comment on this, is that whilst I can understand why MN Towers chose to group questions together etc for GB, it should not be billed as a live chat when it wasn't (and presumably never was intended to be).

Live chats are quite exciting (and billed as such by MNT) I'm a bit disappointed that we would be hoodwinked in that way.

[WormsMinedMyCadaver]

Actually Justine, I'm really curious. Have registrations gone up considerably since this? I know you shut them off beforehand but presumably you've put them back on now? And whether for that reason, you consider the event, on balance, a success or are so chastened by the media's obsession with frivolity that you are put off doing another one?

[GypsyMoth]

Actually the biscuit question evolved from the desire to know what mnhq were serving him with his coffee, thus proving he was actually there in the building, as there had been some doubt!