The Anti-Fascist Thread: who wants to join?:

[VulpusinaWilfsuit]

Because it is time, again, to say these racist, ill-informed notions are unacceptable. Because a bigger agenda, of properly tolerant and civil politics needs to win. Because the BNP and their ilk need outing for the ignorant nonsense they spout, however attractive it sounds to some of the electorate.

So is anyone else interested? In a thread countering arguments, identifying nonsense, challenging perceptions, offering alternatives?

Because I don't want to go down, as resources get tighter, as someone who didn't care that we were stepping backwards in time to when it was OK to subtly undermine the culture of tolerance and acceptance and inclusiveness in our society.

Bollocks to them. Hopefully they'll identify themselves as idiots. But let's provide some alternative ideas for those who are persuaded otherwise?

I'm right behind you.

Not just the loony tunes like the BNP, either. Let's challenge all the racist/xenophobic/intolerant shite that comes out of the mouths of politicians when they are trying to win votes.

Yes, them too.

I'm here.

Oh, I'm so in.

Reality - me too. Stood in the kitchen, was cooking dinner at the time, with my jaw on the floor.

meet up at Question Time?

I'm here! Didn't see Griffin on the news but I stand firmly with the anti-fascisti brigade!

While I of course agree with the tone and sentiment of this thread I do think the BNP should be allowed to participate in the electoral process as other parties are and let the electorate make the right judgement.

There is something though that has been bugging me over the last few weeks. I keep seeing story after news story suggesting the Tory party are linked to far right groups.

An example is this Guardian article suggesting that William Hague is having a meeting today with Hillary Clinton where she is going to be talking about the US administration's concerns about Tory party links to far right groups in Europe.

There was the speech by David Milliband at the Labour conference as reported by the Telegraph which says:

"He went on to accuse Mr Pickles of defending the Latvian SS on the grounds that they were ?only following orders? ? the excuse used by many Nazis to excuse their actions following the Second World War."

I am concerned that a lot of the current focus on this issue may be being entirely stoked by Labour who are MORE concened about the loss of support to the BNP in traditional working class areas and the swing back to the Tories in middle class areas and among Asian communities.

Electoral politics and this issue should not be mixed - it is too important.

Just to clarify. I do not think the Tory party are in any way sympathetic to far right ideology but I DO fear there is a deliberate orchestrated attempt to make it appear that they are.

I personally do not think we should allow parties such as the bnp - the rich mix of cultures is one of the many things that makes this country great, we could let the electorate decide but I do not think that anyone should have an option to vote and elect such a vile and fascist party. We are surely trying to bring our children up to be tolerant and accepting of all people irrespective of skin colour, disability, sexuality whatever? I am ashamed of some of the vile racist behaviour I have witnessed in my local town, the bnp are a 'legitimate'face for the national front how can we allow them to spout their nonsense in the name of democracy?

Blimey. Good. I thought I was on my own last night.

I will definitely join your thread. (DD would probably like to too; she goes around pretending to shoot Nick Griffin after asking me if he was a baddie.)

Ooh count me in on this thread!

We have a by-election tomorrow and the british nutzi party have a candidate. We've been out and leafletted the whole area over the last few weeks, and also staged a demo outside the council run community centre where the BNP were allowed to hold a meeting. About 60 of us turned up at very short notice.

You can read the bnp's take on the meeting
here

and what really happened here

Anyone going to be watching newsnight tomorrow?

Thanks Vulp.

?The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing?

People of all normal political hues should unite in this cause. I'm ususally a fuzzy liberal but was very pleased yesterday by hearing about the 'Nothing British' group - who seem to be Conservative - and their Stolen Valour report.

Oh yes, I'm in.

And Grimma, I absolutely agree with you about the Stolen Valour thing. My brother is currently in Afghanistan with the army and would be horrified to think that this bunch of idiots were trying to cosy up to the squaddies. I heard NG on r4 news yesterday telling us how the squaddies are all BNP voters and the officers are akin to Nazis (ah the irony), and it strikes me as not only offensive but also dangerous to try to drive a political wedge in there. It's just an example of the BNP's insidious opportunistic methods, whatever you think of the war.

In fact, I think I shall email big bro forthwith.

Further to my earlier comment I see Iain Dale has an interesting blog post this morning again about FCO questions yesterday in Parliament which he says there were repeated attempts to link the Conservative party to right wing extremisim.

Iain Dale is a well respected moderate Tory blog commentator and this conclusion:

"So that's the new politics is it? For a senior Labour Cabinet Minister to imply that Conservative MPs secretly rather agree with massacring 400 Jews? What a disgrace. What he and his lapdog MacShane are trying to do is nothing short of political vandalism. They see the Kaminski issue as the one thing they have got to beat the Tory Party with and they will go to any lengths to do so.

I am a traditional moderate one nation Tory voter not a BNP supporter and I dislike the implication that somehow anyone who votes or supports any right of centre party is a racist.

This is an important issue but I just hope it is not being deliberatley whipped up ahead of the election. I live in a town with a lot of old working classs areas with white and Asian voters living happily together with no tension. It is a very very marginal Labour seat at the election and I just hope that no one in any party tries to stir up racial tension ahead of the election to gain political advantage.

I'm in.

I stopped listening to local (London) radio a while ago because I found I couldn't bear some of the things I heard people say on phone ins and the like, and the fact that people felt they were somehow "accceptable" things to say- things that never would have been said a few years ago.

However I've found that you can't avoid this sort of stuff. I have even come across it on here. And avoiding it doesn't mean it doesn't exist...

And ABetaDad- if Tory MEPs align themselves with the extreme right, what do they expect but for people to be ??

Right then. We're all in. Let's set ourselves a challenge...

Make a list of all the 'stories' and arguments that are trotted out by fascists and their apologists. And we can collectively counter them...

1. [just read this on the Nick Griffin thread: a good source for nonsense] I am finding...

'But what are people supposed to do when they find their kids have to go to a school where English is not even the first language...?'

1. 'it's alright for you, up there in your white middle class Guardianista enclave sipping white wine, but you don't know what it's REALLY like. If you did, you'd be understanding why they're voting BNP...'

[This one has been thrown at me a number of times this week, in spite of no-one having the first clue how I live or what I do. But even so that's as irrelevant as who they are or what they do, since what matters is what is actually happening, and how we find the right evidence to find out...]

1. 'I'm not racist. I just don't see why my own culture should have to take a back seat when we are, after all, a white, Christian country...'

1. 'These problems wouldn't be happening if there wasn't different treatment of immigrants and local English people. If people get free housing and benefits and good jobs over 'locals' what do you expect?'

I have to go but will be back with more. And my responses.

Zubin, the trouble is 'who decides' If you were offered the job of deciding what people are allowed to vote for wouldn't you back away in horror? That would be worse than the thing it was meant to cure.

Oh yes, I want to join please!