The Anti-Fascist Thread: who wants to join?:

[VulpusinaWilfsuit]

Because it is time, again, to say these racist, ill-informed notions are unacceptable. Because a bigger agenda, of properly tolerant and civil politics needs to win. Because the BNP and their ilk need outing for the ignorant nonsense they spout, however attractive it sounds to some of the electorate.

So is anyone else interested? In a thread countering arguments, identifying nonsense, challenging perceptions, offering alternatives?

Because I don't want to go down, as resources get tighter, as someone who didn't care that we were stepping backwards in time to when it was OK to subtly undermine the culture of tolerance and acceptance and inclusiveness in our society.

Bollocks to them. Hopefully they'll identify themselves as idiots. But let's provide some alternative ideas for those who are persuaded otherwise?

Some nonsense about poppies and hymns schools; the notion that immigration is THE problem... that kind of thing. Would you be defending DP if you fundamentally disagreed with her, reallY?

Yes but, TSH - I would argue that the word now has over tones that suggest racism, just because of how people often use it.

Where is my sanctimonious diatribe TSH? Exactly? Why don't you go ask DP if she thought I was using her as a punchbag? You, on the other hand, I'm rapidly getting interested...

And swc, did you read any of my posts on the other threads? The ones in which an open debate emerged about how to deal with the sense of exclusion the white working classes feel?

Busy searching, harpy?

What, harpy, you think my opening post is a 'sanctimonious diatribe'? You disagree with it then?

Why are you on this thread, exactly? Since it is for people who are interested in countering fascism?

You're in the closet, aren't you?

I'm with you, Vulpusina.

Oh, the self-righteous accusation again

Apparently if you're not small minded and ignorant you're 'self-righteous'

I was phoned for one of these surveys on the BNP that are in the papers this weekend. I thought a lot of the questions were loaded. The term 'immigrants' was used and 'immigrants' were all lumped together for the purposes of this particular survey.

For instance, I was asked do I agree or disagree that 'compared to white people immigrants are treated favourably or unfavourably in terms of benefits, housing and employment'. There was no option to say you thought they were treated the same. (I had no problems in answering 'unfavourably' but there was no middle ground for people, so would potentially lead a lot of people to say 'favourably' as a knee jerk response).

I was asked do I agree or disagree the white working class have been abandoned by main political parties. I do think that people in lower income brackets are not represented, but I was aware that by ansering 'agree' to this there was going to be a headline '99 % of people agree with BNP'.

I just thought most of the questions were leading people towards knee jerk responses and did not in any way reflect the complexity of the situation. This is why I think we are getting headlines saying '1/3 of people agree with BNP policies' or whatever. I'm desperately hoping I'm right about this, anyway.

Don't agree that by labelling oneself anti fascist/anti racist or actually anti anything at all, is self indulgent or right-on, unless I'm missing the point?

I wasn't about the UAF, TSH. Why would I assume they had superior intellect? I do not agree with anyone who advocates violence.

I wasn't talking about*

No, I most certainly did not. I was referring to a few things that people have said to me this week when I have voiced my (not unreasonable imo) concern about the BNP as I am alarmed by any rise in fascism. Among other things, I was called pompous.

At no time have I ever thought, or suggested that a whole group of people are intellectually superior to another - that's the BNP's ground

Ok, well I will try to explain it how I see it.

First of all, as I understand it personal attacks on MN are not allowed in any circumstances and should be reported.

Secondly, it is not surprising that daftpunk has 'endured' 'braying criticism', given that she has repeatedly asserted she would vote BNP, refuses repeatedly to qualify her position, and ignores other people's attempt to show her how her views have been formed in a misguided way. However, she returns to the thread time and again anyway......

How is it that fascism should not be criticised and challenged?

I doubt many people would say 'poor old Hitler endured braying criticism' really would they? No I am not saying that dp is Hitler but Hitler's ideals were very similar to those of the BNP and there are too many people walking around who have no idea what the BNP actually stand for and what it would really mean for us all if they got in.

It is possible to oppose fascism in a non-violent way and to give reasoned arguments as to why it is wrong and why it doesn't make sense. Plenty of people have done this on the other threads.

Onagar evoked people's frustration because of his attempts to appear 'the voice of reason' through a very thinly veiled veneer of apparent racism. But the rules about peronal attacks are apparently the same for everyone...

Just thought I'd post this link to Lancaster Unity blog which is imo a rather brilliant anti fascist site.

lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/

I haven't read the thread yet but god, am I pleased to see it! I've been posting on the other BNP nonsense threads and am so relived and happy that this exists!

I was proudly at the BBC protesting last week. I'll read properly now but I hope I've misread the criticism ofpeople criticising Daftpunk on other threads.