Pope setting up sub-branch of Catholicism for disaffected Anglicans

[Bleh]

Here. Wow.

I don't get it - I thought that RC priests don't marry don't have sex.#
So if they can fast track protestant priests into the Catholic church - and yet they get to keep their wives and have sex does that mean the that Catholic church has a two tier system?

Makes no sense to me. As a complete outsider it looks like the Pope is trying to get one over Anglicans in the face of issues over women priests etc. But surely if Anglican priests marry and have kids how can they possibly be Catholic priests -unless they take a more minor role perhaps?

Am I right in thinking that the two do not get on at all.

My husband is from a Catholic country and when I'm there I'm called the Protestant (they assume Brits all are) - and not called it as compliment if you get my drift.

After 16 years I haven't had the heart to tell them I'm not a Christian at all.

What does this move by Rome actually mean?

There are already married ex-anglican priests in the CAtholic church. As someone said, they don't tend to get parish priest roles, but they are still priests like any other. They get to still live with their wives, as before.

This is quite a good article, although going back a while to an earlier influx of married clergy.

allok: You are basically right on all your points. There are a few ex-Anglican married priests in the RC church. Basically, if they were Anglican priests and then 'saw the light' and became Catholic, they were re-ordained (RC doesn't recognise anglican holy orders) and allowed to serve in the priestly ministry of the RC church (although not as official parish priests).

There is a lot of anger (IME) from catholics about married anglican priests, basically having their cake and eating it. Particularly frustrating for RC priests who do not feel particularly called to celibacy (although have to keep the vow).

If you were originally Catholic and then became Anglican, and then became a priest, then you can't become a catholic priest.

So there is a two-tier system really with the ex-Anglicans having a lot of perks e.g. tasty wimmin AND massive pensions (CofE pensions are quite hefty, Catholic ones are shit).

IME (again) most Catholics view ex-Anglican priests as a bit half-arsed and they are forever called "Fr-Jeff-Who-Used-To-Be-An-Anglican". There is a lot of ill-feeling IME.

And in addition to what AMuminScotland said other RCs will be unhappy because by getting all the conservative Anglicans coming over the Catholic church is going to be even harder to modernise. And it's probably worth noting that, at least in western countries, RC congregations are not exactly swarming with families with more than 2 or 3 kids - so many of us are on shaky ground criticising people who only accept some of the rules.

Liked the comment in the Times saying we want our churches and cathedrals back - couldn't work out how it was linked to the rest of the story.

alana, I think there are some catholics who basically still think that Anglican churches and cathedrals were stolen from 'them' so want them back - the assumption being that if an entire parish was to convert to catholicism, then they might be able to bring their church buildings back to the Roman fold (an issue that is itself massively legally complicated in the UK)

The local RC priest said he wouldn't want our church, its too costly to maintain (well it is!). However I can't see the CofE handing over churches, I don't think they would be able to, in law. When some parishes in the US broke away from the Anglican Communion, they weren't allowed to take their churches with them.

I think that the English law on church property is more complicated than US law, because the local vicar is the freeholder but also the local parishioners are something to do with it.... it's complex. But I can't see any PCCs voting 100% to GO GO GO.

The differences in lifestyle are so IMMENSE between the clergy for a start. The average Anglican vicarage is covered with trinkets and pets and souvenirs from 3-or-4 times a year vacations abroad. Catholic priests have a 'salary' of 8k per year, take a vow of poverty, have very few personal possessions, and if they go abroad are usually off to dig wells in the missions fields of south America.... I remember when a friend entered Catholic seminary and was told to sell his CDs and hifi and give the money to the poor... he was gutted! I just can't see hundreds of Anglican families opting for this!

Actually it occurred to me last night that a good example of the "suspicion" towards anglicans from catholics is the fact that my own grandparents have barely spoken to me since I became a protestant 15 years ago (and refused to attend my wedding when I married a non-catholic)

oooh yes they are going to welcome an anglican priest with open arms, I'm sure

In our diocese anyway, most "vicars" are actually called "priest in charge", as they don't have the freehold (although our vicar does). And I'm sure our vicar would love to be an average vicar, as he, with 3 children to support, cannot afford 1 foreign holiday a year and holidays with relatives, and this is with his wife working. But that's a tangent...

Possibly true Mary but in Somerset where the average wage is very low, vicars on a basic of 22.5 (esp. those with no children/working wives, or who are retired) are CONSIDERABLY more comfortable than their RC counterparts.

Continuing the tangent, actually my experience of Catholic priests and nuns is a bit different - they're allowed to have "what normal people have", which translates to a more comfortable lifestyle than the lay people they work with - although it comes in terms of perks rather than salary.

Bitter, moi?

Mangos I haven't seen that with any priests I've met - mainly drive an old banger that they need to visit parishioners, any holidays they do have tend to be to visit family or priests they trained with who live elsewhere. The last nun I knew who lived in the community shared a 3 bedroom house with 2 other nuns but tbh it wasn't much better than most student accommodation I've lived in.

The catholic church cannot continue as it is, because very few men are becoming priests. Some parishes have married deacons carrying out Sunday services. The deacons miss out the transubstantion part of the service, and give out ready consecrated bread and wine. This is probably the way that the catholic church is going to be in the future.

I think that the pope is trying to think ahead, to figure out a way to sneak in married priests. It is a pragmatic decision, either do this or the church ends.

Diocesan (parish) priests make a vow of celibacy and obedience, but not a vow of poverty. They are permitted to own possessions, but are encouraged to live frugally - It would not be acceptable to take a second job as a hedge fund manager, but would be permitted to work as a teacher, counsellor etc. Priests attached to a holy order do take a vow of poverty, as do monks and nuns.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to have married priests. I do not know how the C of E manages it! How can vicars earn enough to support a family unless there is a FT working non-priest in the family?

Sorry morningpaper just read properly and see you made the point about holidays etc already. FWIW my grandmother did the same thing to one of my cousins when she got married in a protestant church, even though my cousin was lapsed and her husband was a very active member of his church. Most of us are not bigots although in my gran's defence she was born and bred in Glasgow and the sectarian divide is rather stronger there than in the rest of mainland UK.

I think older Catholics struggle more with accepting other denominations - part of it is just the fact that the Catholic church still kept itself very separate when they were growing up, with Latin masses and no contribution to Christian unity, but also (in the experience of my family and I'm sure lots of others) many of them were Irish immigrants who came here and experienced fairly extreme prejudice, so they retreated into their own community and religion.

BTW we'll only have the churches back if they weren't vandalised and whitewashed in the reformation - we've enough boring ones of our own thanks

My church needs about 250k work done on it - do you want it? I give you good price...

Madsometimes: vicars earn upwards of 20k and have accommodation provided which is usually pretty spacious (I think it has to accommodate a family of 4 plus study area and public area as a minimum)

Our 14th Century grade 1 listed church is beautiful and you can't have it, Alana!

How do Anglican priests afford to bring up a family? Well I guess free rent and free pension helps, but for the responsibility the position entails, they are underpaid. Not only that, many parishes are either half-stipend (= half pay) or "house for duty" (= no pay but rent free house).

Does anyone know how many are talking of joining the RCC, both in numbers of priests, and of laity?

MaryBS No one knows, it's impossible to guess IMO. Forward in Faith conference this weekend, so we'll have to see what comes of that. Having said that, the code of practice for women bishops has been downgraded (last week) which cheered up the FiF-ers a bit (although pssed off WATCH etc), so who knows?

(Also the 'decision day' cited by Ebbsfleet et al of 22 Feb is about 10 days after Synod, who will be voting on the wimmin Bishops, and I'd imagine that there will be a lot of hoo-haa dependent on how that goes)

But the FiFers aren't talking of jumping yet, only those that have been calling themselves "Traditional Anglicans" I think? And they broke away from the Anglican Church in 1991, so technically aren't Anglican anyway...

Haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if I'm repeating, but I did like The Daily Mash's spin here

If it's aimed at recruiting the Anglican priests, is this an indicator of just how hard it is to recruit new would-be priests? I'm sure I've seen somewhere that seminary numbers have just collapsed over the last decade. An interesting variation on encouraging 'immigrants' to shore up an aging population, this time on a religious rather than geographical basis!

OK, yes, found the 22 Feb date...

The flying Bishops were quick to praise the move (if a little guardedly) and the FiF issued a positive press release very quickly, so I think they are perceiving it as having considerable relevance to them in particular

I know some people in FiF parishes (who are actually pro-OoW, and they're not interested in moving. In fact with whats been happening in Synod, and the fact that a code of practice is unworkable, makes it easier for them to stay in many ways.

I don't see how a FiF parish can be pro-OoW because by definition it must have passed Resolutions A, B or C ?