London school terms including days off for Diwali, Eid-Ul-Fitr, Eid-Al-Adha and Guru Nanak Day

[SomeGuy]

What do we think of this? (The DM has just noticed, there's no point in linking to them though)

This is the school term for Newham schools:

Tuesday 1 September 2009
To
Friday 18 December 2009

plus

EID-UL-FITR
Monday 21 September 2009
GURU NANAK DAY
Monday 2 November 2009
EID-UL-ADHA
Friday 27 November 2009

there are the usual Teacher Training Days scattered throughout the year.

Haringey's term, for comparison, starts 2 days later, so the net result is that Newham children have school year that is 1 day shorter.

Diwali is also scheduled, but it falls on a Saturday so no days off are scheduled.

This year the holidays all fit in well with weekends, being either on Friday, but they are all movable feasts, so in future years they could fall mid-week, weekends, whatever.

A quick look at the banner on Newham's website suggests that the local population is perhaps more interested in some of these holidays than the traditional ones, so I guess many would take the day off anyway.

Obviously there are issues - on the one hand, summer holidays are very long, and moving a few days out of it to make up for these holidays wouldn't make much odds, on the other they are imposing additional childcare obligations on parents potentially in the middle of the week, and an extra holiday on say a Wednesday in January is of little use unless you are celebrating the associated holiday.

The complaint appears to be that these have been forced upon schools (they cannot opt out), I guess it must reduce absence numbers, but should schools have more freedom to set their terms anyway, those (nationally) with significant Muslim populations could set these Muslim holidays, while other schools would not. And I guess in Jewish areas, if they want to have days off for Yom Kippur, they could do that too.

I think someguy has been given a hard time on this thread.

It's an interesting discussion - should schools reduce absence numbers by including relevant festivals in their statutory days off, and should this be done at a borough level, or school by school?

I can't see that this is an outrageous question to ask - or did I miss some aspect of the OP?

In my home town for eg, they celebrate Bonfire night in a big way and this is given as a day off to all the children no matter where it falls, because absence rates would be unacceptable otherwise. AFAIK this is only done within the town, not at any other schools in the LEA.

Is Guru Nanak not the founder of Sikhism?

I think I must be reading a different thread to everyone else

I read it as all schools for that area where being made to take certain holidays. Wouldn't it make more sense for a predominantly Jewish school to be able to take Jewish holidays and the same for schools with mainly Muslim pupils taking their own holidays.

Took me 5 minutes to post that back to read whats been said since so sorry if I'm at crosspurposes at any point

where were

given that the big hols centre around Christian religous festivals, I think it's absolutely right that schools are closed for Eid and Diwali.

This is why I think there is an underlying racist tone to the question: because the answers are being set up here. Griffin will be going 'ker-ching' with this kind of argument.

"By VulpusinaWilfsuit on Tue 20-Oct-09 14:21:23
This is why I think there is an underlying racist tone to the question: because the answers are being set up here. Griffin will be going 'ker-ching' with this kind of argument."

What answers are being set up? Why would Griffin be going "kerching"?

Am I missing something here?

Surely it's just a practical argument - how best to reduce absenteeism and avoid half the school being absent for a particular day? I don't think anyone is saying that they have a problem with schools closing for religious festivals - are they? Or am I reading a different thread to everyone else?

I'm honestly bewildered by all the high emotions flying around - admittedly I haven't read the DM article but the question itself seems to me to be completely valid - should a borough set the festivals regardless of individual schools religious profiles, or should it be left up to schools to choose the festivals most relevant to their pupils?

Must be theyoungvisiter but I seem to be missing it too

I'm not sure that Nick Griffin is recruiting on Mumsnet, or that he's got any need for lessons in rhetoric from me, I guess he probably honed his skills at Cambridge and has been shit-stirring ever since.

OK someguy, since you're back, why don't you tell us what YOU think about the issue?

Bronze makes a fair point though about schools should be able to decide this for themselves rather than have the LEA saying everyone has to take a particular festival off, even though the intake of school X may have a lot of Muslim pupils and very few Hindus so Diwali isn't relevant to most of them etc. etc. etc.

And I'm sure ds's school chooses its own inset days - so why the need for the LEA to rule on this?

As I've said, at least twice already, my opinions were in the original post.

I suggested schools, nationally, be allowed set their own holidays as they suit their students and their families.

Does this have some relevance to the BNP????

edam: They are not ruling on the inset days, they are adding extra holidays and slightly extending the Christmas term. The inset days are additional to these. The (possibly Muslim/Sikh/Jewish) staff might also want the day off, so scheduling Baker days for religious holidays is perhaps not a good solution.

What a lot of cross people on this thread! I can't see that SomeGuy has incited anything at all and has put forwarad all relevant points for a discussion, asking the question, should schools be able to make their own decisions on whether to close for religious holidays.

I would add though that whether atheists, believers etc. or not, the UK is a christian country, therefore of course christian holidays will be followed. IMO it is wrong that schools should close on other religious holidays ie Muslim, Jewish etc but that those wishing to celebrate those festivals, do so out of their own holiday entitlement (if working) or arrange to take their children out of school, which, I understand, typically has worked v well for many years.

Should those wishing to celebrate minority religious festivals (and I say minority because we are a christian country) attend school or work during christian holidays for example?

I just think this is a case of political correctness all going mad once again. No offence intended to anyone btw!

Oh and the UAE does not celebrate Xmas either... indeed, christian churchs etc are absolutely forbidden in most strict muslim countries...

I think cantthink's post exactly makes my point about how the question sets up a racist response...

What vulpusina said

CantThinkofFunnyName: some state schools are over 90% Muslim. In these schools, these are not minority religious festivals at all.

If Muslim parents do take their children off in such a school, there would be no point in the school opening at all as there would be nobody there to teach.

OTOH, it does seem daft that some of these schools in these boroughs will not have (m)any Muslim pupils to insist they have the day off. If we want national observance of these holidays (as happens in for instance Indonesia, where you get days off for Christmas, Easter, the Buddha's birthday and Eid, regardless of religion), then we should do so. Otherwise holidays should scheduled for practical reasons alone, not to make a point, as seems to be the case here.

I don't mind saying that I think it?s stupid that schools close for so many festivals. We are in Great Britain and our national religion is Christianity so for Christian festivals children should be given time off for anything else the parents should have to ask for the time off just like you have to ask permission to go on holiday during term time. It's not racist it's just practical, there are so many different religions and festivals that if schools were to close for all of them then I?m sure they'd hardly ever open. The fact is that we do not live in a Muslim or Jewish state we live in a Christian country that accepts other faiths. Boundaries have to be drawn somewhere.

So, do you want national observance of these holidays SomeGuy?

I don't mind saying that I think it?s stupid that schools close for so many festivals

It is stupid to close for Sikh, Hindu and Muslim holidays, but not Jewish and Buddhist ones.

It is stupid to close for Sikh/Hindu/Muslim festivals if you don't have a notable Sikh population.

I grew up in Waltham Forest. I found it interesting that Muslims insisted that a school holiday be taken on their festival days, but the Chinese, when asked, didn't.

Well it's not just Muslims in this case, but it does seem rather silly to decide to break with normal practice and observe an additional three religions but to exclude others.