Yet another dog attack....

[Ewe]

Poor kid.

I do struggle sometimes to understand why people have dogs!

Just found this in a BBC report on staffys, "extremely reliable, highly intelligent and affectionate, especially with children. It's not a description most of us would associate with Staffordshire bull terriers, but it's how the UK Kennel Club sums thems up

In fact, the breed is one of only two from over 190 it recommends as suitable with children, the other being a Chesapeake Bay retriever."

I do agree that you do get aggressive staffys but I see a lot of other aggressive breeds on my daily walks.

Dollius - are you confusing me with someone else? I didn't suggest "banning" dogs... I wasn't actually suggesting anything, just asked some questions and made some observations.

My dc have been brought up around dogs and know how to treat them with respect. I'm quite comfortable with them being around most breeds but not staffies. My sis works in a vet hospital and tells me that nearly every case of mauling they see is down to them. How the kennel club can recommend them as pets for kids is completely beyond me.

It is true that some idiots can not even look after temselves, let alone raise happy, balanced and safe dogs as pets. Anyone can own a dog nowadays and that is the problem. Being a dog owner is a real commitment, especialy when dealing with 'dangerous' breeds. Bring back the dog licence I say, and make people attend classes to learn about how to be a responsible owner.

I agree with you DrNorthener,all dogs should be registered and microchipped,it might sort out a few of the irresponsible owners.

Is the media responsible in part for this? Do they not report attacks on children by other breeds? Perhaps they don't. I was very surprised that Labs account for most A&E visits but then you would go there with a bite, not straight to the morgue as with other attacks

Trouble is, as a previous poster said, it's the dealer-types who tend to get staffs and rotties. And we only ever hear about the incidents happening on sink estates. I'm prepared to be convinced that they're being done a disservice.

Anyone remember the MNer who posted about her child being attacked by a dog in a fenced playground? The owner googled the place and breed, found the thread, apologised a bit and tried to make out it was the child's fault for squeaking a squeaky thing on the slide. Mr Middle Class! (Or was it a troll? )

JV - no I haven't confused you with someone else. My point is that it's all very well giving your "observations", but what do you propose we do about it?

I completely agree with Dr N.

The owner of our local staffie is himself on a register and chipped

But I do take your point bubbles, and DN also. It'd put off people like my neighbour (and my other neighbours) getting free dogs of uncertain provenance.

The people I know who have large and / or dangerous animals have no idea how to manage their children. Toddlers out 'till eleven at night, no meal-times no bedtimes, saunter slowly along to school every day when I'm letting myself in...

Lest anyone think I'm rabidly anti-dog I had a Yorkie as an older child. I loved him. He got snappy though, really aggressive. Scary. He couldn't do me any real harm other than puncturing my skin which he did a lot but he could have eaten the face off a baby tiny as he was.

I still disagree with the kennel club and say that guinea pigs the best pets

By dollius on Sat 17-Oct-09 22:24:22
JV - no I haven't confused you with someone else. My point is that it's all very well giving your "observations", but what do you propose we do about it?

What do I propose we do about it? Well, I cant propose anything on anyone elses behalf but for myself I choose not to keep a dog that could overpower me or anyone else.

Other than that I'll just carry on observing as I see fit. After all, I dont choose to keep one of these dogs so unfortunately there's not much I can do about dogs attacking children, is there?

actually it is the retriever that presents with most dog bites, however part of the reason for this is that the retriever is also one of the most popular dogs, thus if there are more of them, then statistically more of them will bite iyswim.

I am actually horrified that the kennel club recommend staffies as one of the only dogs suitable as pets, over breeds like labradors who are notoriously gentle dogs.

However wonderful staffs are reported to be with children, they have an awful reputation for being extremely agressive towards other dogs. So all you would need is a child to come between the pet staff and its intended victim and you could have a nasty bite..

I think the issue re leaving children alone with dogs is relevant depending on the age of the child tbh. Because contrary to what seems to be popular belief by some, dogs do actually very rarely turn on someone for no reason.

So it is important to teach our children to have respect for dogs, but also to be aware that when they are very little they just don't get the idea of the boundaries they should allow between them and the dog and thus they should be supervised.

Generally when these dogs attack small children they are either:

sed as guard dogs and have somehow gained access to the unsupervised child, and because they have been kept to be agressive they have done what they are intended for with disasterous consequences. In such cases the owner of the dog is surely completely responsible.

or they are young children who have been left unsupervised with a dog, in which case nobody can really know what causes a dog to attack a young child, but having seen the fascination children have with poking/prodding/pulling at animals, perhaps the child has just pushed the dog too far again, with disasterous consequences.

I think it's easy to say to never leave children with dogs because "dogs are unpredictable," fact is, children can be unpredictable too, and perhaps a dog wouldn't bite if the child didn't tease/poke/pull it.

If a dog bites a child the dog is always perceived to be in the wrong. Yet surely one should also question why people leave children who cannot yet be trusted to be kind to dogs alone with them?

I am a dog owner and if one of my dogs bit someone I couldn't keep the dog any longer.

However I think that it's not wrong to ask the questions, and to wonder how many of these dog attacks could be avoided if the humans just took some different steps...

JV:

"Other than that I'll just carry on observing as I see fit. After all, I dont choose to keep one of these dogs so unfortunately there's not much I can do about dogs attacking children, is there? "

Someone else could say: "After all, I don't choose to have children so unfortunately there's not much I can do about young yobs throwing bricks through elderly ladies' windows, is there?"

ie, absurd.

The vast majority of them, Wannabe.

Magnolia - I hear you. My boy is nearly 11 and was brought into our family long before the ill conceived breeding of today. (That said, the pedigree has done him no good whatsoever and the vetinary costs have been massive - and are still quite substantial on a month by month basis). After living with him I have always said I would never get another breed, but I would be far warier of the breeding these days - whilst trying to avoid the pedigree downfalls you certainly can't be sure what you are getting. Although knowing the unfailing good nature of the vast majority of these dogs as I do, I would do my utmost to find a responsibly bred dog, should I ever get another.

JV!

It's been AGES!

Staffs can't overpower adults. All dogs can overpower children, even chihauhaus. We are all responsible for our children and the children of others. I always say "look at the owner before you judge the dog". I think that mum's whose children play round here realise that.

You know, I really wish Mumsnet would introduce an "edit" feature so the apologies for the hideous rogue apostrophes wasn't necessary, but I guess I am a Stafford lover :-P

I do sometimes wonder whether if you have to have a licence to drive a car, moped, lorry, use machinery etc, all of which can be dangerous yet can be switched off, perhaps people should have training and suitability testing (licensing!) prior to owning animals and having children as they demand far greater responsibility and years of care that is taken for granted.

The licensing issue IS an interesting one SpinningTop, and I have to be honest I don't know the reasons it was phased out (well before my dog-owning years and I am pretty old).

You have to have a licence to drive a car and operate machinery et al and yet there is an element of society that do both without those "pre-requisites". My guess it would be the same proportion/element that would own dogs irresponsibly and that same would choose the latest "breed of choice".

Enforcement? Police officers are so overstretched they can't even deal with actual crimes taking place, let alone an unlicensed dog. The recession will eventually see big cuts in the police force and all other community services in a few years so licensing is not the answer for today.

You can still easily source pitbull puppies in this country - if you wanted one - so even laws against the breed do not really help.

All of this is an indictment against our society.

erm....

i own a car. cars kill 2.2 k people every year in this country. Will mine kill someone? I really hope not- but it is very unlikely.

I also own a dog. dogs kill so very rarely it is actually true to say you are more likely to win the lottery. i googled for a figure, but got the US figure of 17 deaths pa (in a greatly larger population) ...very very very unlikely.

i suspect people are greatly more likely to go to hospital for a dog bite than they were back in 1971...because they are more likely to believe they need medical attention.

staffys are generally very friendly, loving dogs. people forget some staffy X dogs are bred with the express purpose of being fighting dogs - and trained accordingly. i suspect that this practice may have something to do with this attack....but those dogs have as much to with your avergae pet staffy as the common or garden cat does with a puma.

incidentally banning breeds of dogs is pointless - one of the 'breeds' banned isn't a breed at all (ie never recognised by the KC) - all you get is that they go unregistered. (think, what is the difference between a pit bull, and say, an English X, or a Staffy/boxer X...)

calls for muzzling in public - well. This attack was, like most nasty attacks, indoors. wouldn't have any effect - sledgehammer to crack nuts.

Love your name Edgar

I wouldn't have a dog, I have enough cleaning to do!!, but I do like dogs. I really like Staffordshire bull terriers but all too often I see them being pulled about by a certain type of person with the pure purpose of being a status symbol.

If you have any animals you don't leave them with children for a number of reasons, children tend to annoy animals, pick them up too much, they're good bottom and licking height.....and then there's animals being animals and defending or attacking.

Winestein! Hello m'dear, I was just thinking about you the other day...and ther you are! Hope you're well.
I have to disagree re a Staffs strength - I have two close family members who own these dogs and and they are all teeth and muscle, I am no little frail thing but there is no doubt in my mind that if one of them went for my son I wouldn't stand a chance in getting it off.

Absolutely agree with Riven - if a child is attacked by a dog in a home then its not just down to the dog and the owner but also the parent (it seems that its often not the parents dog but extended family), you really must never leave a small child and a dog together.
Though I know in my own case that my unwillingness to let my son roam about in a home that has a Staff is a source of irritation for the owner of the dog - as if I am questioning their ability to raise a well behaved dog. Yes they are extremely responsible owners but it is still my responsibility to keep my son safe. And I do wonder how many dog owners who have done all the right things in training and caring for their dog feel that all the other dog/ child precautions dont apply to them because of that? It certainly seems that whenever a dog attack is in the news dog owners are quick to point at the child being at fault (or at least their parent for apparently not teaching them how to behave around dogs) or the owners for not caring for their dog correctly - but we dont often know that this is the case. ANY dog can attack - it just irritates me when some owners feel that their dog is somehow an exception.

Dollius - Bizarre! I've never come across this idea before that I must only offer solutions and not thoughts/opinions. Well I dont have a solution...may I carry on posting anyway? Pretty please??

Vile - you great big piece of fluff! (I'm totally opposing you and whilst I am (graciously) allowing you to have an opinion, I'm poking you gently in the ribs... Can you feel it?)

NOW GET BACK IN YOUR BOX!

I am indeed well! And you?

We have a german shepherd (who was here before the children, or wouldn't be here!) and she loves our kids, but she is never never never alone with them, and is rarely with them when we are around truth be told. She plays outside all day and they are inside until we swap over at some point. Or she is in the front, they are in the back. I can't imagine just walking off and leaving them together...I try not to do that too much with the kids!!