Tories' plans to take half a million people off incapacity benefits

[policywonk]

There's not much detail available (that I've been able to find) but the story in a nutshell is here

IIRC, you have to fill in a vast form and be signed off by a GP to receive incapacity benefit. What 'medical assessment' are the Tories going to devise that's going to be more accurate than that? Or are they just looking for a way to take vulnerable people off higher rates of benefits?

Or am I missing something?

there's absolutely no incentive for businesses to create jobs in this country any more - taxed to death and having to follow administrative processes where the authorities (generally HMRC) seem to delight in making everything more and more complicated (see the 2010 cross border VAT charging that is due to come in).

My vote doesn't really count because our seat is a dead cert lib dem but I was hoping that ONE party might at least have the balls to throw in some economic stimuli! (I know they've introduced something for new companies hiring people but that won't go very far)

I feel sorry for people (genuinely) on long term incapacity benefit with mental health problems tbh. I am sure there is a huge amount of discrimination in the work place against hiring such people.

You're right Kay. My Dad was £30 a week better off when working. He always said it was thrirty quid he'd rather have in his pocket than not.
The trouble is though, people like the security of IB. They know they can't be forced onto some temp ptime contract which must be very frightening because it's so hard to sort your benefits out again when tyhe contract is over.

I don't know much about such things, but would presume anyone is is not supposed to be getting it and is, deserves to have it stopped.

Those who are legally entitled and tick all the right boxes would have nothing to fear IMO,

exactly. Oo, it makes me so cross.

goes off to have a cup of tea and calm down

exactly was to Litchick's comments.

Ah PW just the dilemma I posted on another thread the other day LOL- it really does come down to that

I am in SW right now, its got better over the years but the industried ahve been bashed again- Port talbot has a new furnace opening after bieng mothballed for years, but Bridgend has 200 jobs about to go and Newport has lost laods iin every sector.

There are certain palces whre recession bites a bit harder than elsewhere: here is one. I've been trying to get a daytime job whilst the older boys are in school- nothing, not a sniff. And I am hardly under qualified either.

It'seasy to see motivation for this; assuming a 10% re-employment rate (given current financial climate), that's a saving of 450,000 claims of 20 a week- over a year thats £468,00000 (sorry of number of zero's wromg, find them hard to read on screen).

And 450,000 people still without jobs fiding it ever tougher to get by.

They'd be unlikely to dot hat ehre Herbiw,the farm that ran such a scheme has been a target of arson attacks lately (assuming a link based on possibly- biased radio report).

I'dlove there to be more like that, I think ds1's best chance of working would be that sort of scheme (AS /HFA). He will certainly need somewhre that understands he might not match up socially but can still do the graft. Assuming I can get him in that before then, otherwise I wouldn't recommend employing him at all (!).

All teh schemes I am awre of though in ASD which is what I know are run by the NAS. The way charity income os falling its likely I think there will be a masive reduction in schemes also, esp. the smaller more vulnerable ones.

Hate to say it, but there seems to be thousands of people who claim it but are in reality, quite able to work. Not sure if it's hald a million but definately a lot. I could claim it if I wanted too, but choose not too because I think it would be wrong for me too when I'm relatively fine to work most days and others need it more than me! But I know others in my position who do claim it and it pisses me off so much

PW - if you'd asked me ten years ago I would have said keep things as they are - if a few undeservers get some cash, so be it. Better to protect the vulnerable.
Now though, I am seriously beginning to question how humane it is to incentivise people to claim benefits. Or certainly to make it a viable choice.
I think the heart and soul have been ripped from the working classes because of the benefit culture that permeates.
I think people deserve to live their lives independently of the state and the state should actively encourage that.

Haven't actually read the whole thread because tis very long now........but........

Seems to me the Tories are simply repackaging ideas from Labour and strapping them more forcefully.

This incapacity benefit thing is not new. Dame Carol Black did a report in the last few years (2007 I think) which recommends the notion of the "fit Note" rather than the "sick note".

Therefore people who are currently signed off full time work with, say depression, are given a "fit note" to work say, part-time in a given industry. Labour as far as I know are starting to implement this anyway in the hope that it will remove this black and white fit/not-fit criteria. Of course, most people who are on incapacity benefit are fit to do something but because of the way the system is so black and white, they have to cheat to do that 'something' and retain their income....

I think the Tories have a cheek. David Cameron is so slimey he makes gag. His 'policy' is totally without substance - how is he going to get these people back to work? Labour at least have a plan of action to resolve some of the grey areas in the system.

Same with his pensions policy btw - labour were already doing this. He is just dramatising an idea that is already to be implemented. Tosser toff.

And Labour have never repackaged Tory policies?

Litchick the big issue with that is that you are then penalising those for whom it is not a choice,are you not?

Am not on IB but am a Carer; I have no choices. In fact IMO the true definition of poverty is to be without choice. Many, many of those on IB will have just as little choice as I do, but it costs just as much for us to eat and fuel our hosues (technically mroe if you're home all day with many conditions, of course).

That will be tough on my ex neighbour. He will have to do full time bricklaying and gardening instead of part time.

Im really pissed off that quite a few people I know who are definitely on IB have been able to afford holidays to Florida. I will NEVER be able to afford to go despite working my socks off. I know someone who goes every 2 years , with a cheapy (but always abroad) hol in the year in between.

WellSquish if you can ask them to email me with their advice on budgetng i;d be grateful, becuase my benefit is @same amount with a DH in PT work and Uni and still the boys have never been abroad, or are likely to be able.

mind, after reading FIS'spost as an ex employee of VAT office I now realise I am anathema on all fronts so shall go hide in a corner and beat myself with birch

But here DC has repackaged but forgotten to put the content inside.

It scares me that this man may be pm. He is tofftastic but not in a charasmatic, masterful and likeable way. He is simply an empty toff devoid of any character and substance.

If you had to describe DC what can you say?

Agreeable is all I can come up with

No discernable sense of humour. No inspiring speeches. Just a sense of entitlement and superiority and knowing all. Yet still just sort of.....agreeable. People say Gordon Brown is dull........but DC is dull x 100. There is NOTHING intriguing about him.

Is this actually a thread to slag off DC???

A couple of years ago I worked for a small company and we wanted to employ a car washer. I saw a couple of people (some didnt turn up!) and we took on a chap who had a few learning difficulties. He was a complete nightmare. He turned up at any time of the day, he couldnt really wash the cars and he kept leaving keys in the ignition. He once left with one of the cars and the next day came back with it saying he thought he was entitled to a company car...

It ended up with his sister turning up at the offices shouting and screaming that we didnt understand his difficulties and that he should be able to choose his own hours of work because he had some problems getting up every morning. She also said that he shouldnt be expected to do a good job on the cars because he had learning difficulties.

Whilst I have some sympathy with this we were running a business and I would not employ do it again.

That's interesting about the Black report, Squirrel. I don't think the 'fit note' system has been introduced - has it? Is it one of the things that Labour has under review? (And let's just say that if this did turn into a thread to slag off DC, I wouldn't be tremendously unhappy about it.)

Lichick, I disagree about the benefits/dependency culture. I think it has other root causes (most of which come down to the widening gap between the rich and the poor, and the fact that social mobility has seized up). IMO, cutting benefits without addressing wider societal inequities is putting the cart before the horse.

These proposals seem to me to be about punishing people more than anything else. The public at large is suspicious of those on IB (mostly because they don't know much about them), and so this is an easy political target.

In total agreement PW. Noting the replies on the thread which appear to be people gleefully rubbing their hands together at the prospect of other people losing out. 'scroungers' etc.

Herbie we're not in Bridgend but general area; fortunately we landed somewhre a bit less vulnerable but I cam from a similar town so know what the place is like.

And yes I do worry about DS1 and work. DS3 won't work, full stop. Somehow that'seasier to deal with.

I just thought of a final point before I rush off for my pre school run in the wet scone: it's worth remembering that many people on IB don't live in LA homes or claim sufficient HB for their rent. £20 per week may well have an impact on other people then in terms of tenant defaults and mortgage arrears. There's no such thing as an isoltaed group: we all contribute to our economies and £20 a week is £20 a week less epnt in local shops etc.

PW, I think that the ESA assessment essentially is the "fit note" isn't it?

LM - yes? The person I know on IB hasn't been reassessed - maybe it will take them a while to work through.

Overthehill is right, bit rich for the Tories to blame people for being on incapacity benefit when it was actually Tory policy in the first place... OK, plenty of time has passed, but really a little reflection is in order here.