Banning smoking outdoors?

[MrsMerryHenry]

Did anyone else hear about this on R4 (PM programme) this evening? I can't find an article about it anywhere. Is this a serious proposal?

It does make me when smokers complain about infringement of civil liberties over this issue. I don't believe I have ever heard a smoker talk about non-smokers' civil liberties being infringed every time someone lights up. And non-smokers have been putting up with second-hand smoke for about as long as humans have walked the earth. So although a very small part of me feels a wee bit sorry for smokers, that they're being pushed into a corner, the rest of me goes "ROFLROFLROFL it's about time."

I just turned my computer on to find this discussion is still very much alive.. I left it yesterday afternoon.. ho ho.. Definitely some strong opinions coming out I guess..

Your logic is terribly skewed Pixinanny, sorry about that. You can't say 'yes you shouldn't smoke outside hospital' and then say 'smoking outside cannot be bad for anyone'.

Flowers/hayfever - er, flowers and plants are part of our natural environment. Cigarettes are not.

I totally agree cars should be used less. It is incredibly facetious though to try to make out cars are as useless as cigarettes.

'the effects of passive smoking are exaggerated' ROFL. As I said, you must tell the scientists that.

Please link to hard science if you're going to make such a facetious claim.

Great name Pofaced. You need to take a deep breath.

Have to admit to not having read the thread (it is 14 pages long) so may be repeating someone else's point.

I will agree to ban smoking outside when they ban cars.

Does anyone seriously think it does more harm to their precious lungs walking past a bunch of smokers on a pavement than walking down any road with a fair amount of cars driving past them?? You might not mind the smell as much but I'm pretty sure it's not any better for you! And the impact is a lot more sustained and difficult to avoid.

I'm a non-smoker and I hate the smell of smoke, but I hate this ban-everything/control everything culture in this country, it makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

Like Nelly I haven't read the whole 14 pages but I think the ban smoking/ban cars thing is a ridiculous comparison.

This summer, when trying to eat outside at several restaurants/bars - we've been driven indoors by all the smokers who now sit outdoors or pop out for a fag halfway through their meal.

You wouldn't choose to sit and eat next to a car exhaust so there's no comparison there. It's just nasty and unpleasant - imho smoking should definitely, without question be banned wherever there is food.

I'm perfectly calm my dear Teetering. Just annoyingly sticking to facts not fiction. Silly me.

But we know that car fumes outdoors actually ARE harmful, but there is no evidence at all that cigarette smoke outdoors is harmful.

So which thing do we ban:

something useless and harmless

OR

something useful and harmful

?

OR

how about we stop getting so hysterical because other people do things we don't like?

There are lots of things in the world that don't smell good. We should only prevent people from doing things that cause actual harm to others.

Having children doesn't mean you get to boss everyone in the entire world around.

I too left this discussion and can see that its basically just going around in circles - i dont smoke but agree with nelly. Surely there should be balance in everything and this thread just appears to be vitriolic and unbalanced.

This is an emotive subject which im sure the majority of people feel strongly about one way or another but i have friends who smoke who wouldnt dream of smoking around my children, me, the cat, dog et al - its stupid to lump everyone in the same boat and tar (scuse the pun) all smokers with the same brush.

Everyone knows smoking is bad for you and i think that the risk to others has just about been as negated as it can be in a democratic society - if there is still a risk albeit a small one to come to light with regards to smoking outdoors then the evidence should be examined and appropriate action taken.

I still think that there should be pubs and cafes that cater to a smokers needs and ones that cater to a non smokers needs - both indoor and out. If you are going to have a no smoking pub then that should cover the entire premises and vice versa with a smoking one. I can imagine though which type of pub most landlords that are struggling with the ban would plump for.

Being dogmatic about this issue is pointless. Someone said earlier in the thread about smokers being in a minority. Perhaps in their circle of friends they are but i went to a concert on Friday night and there was a huge amount of people outside smoking before we went in.

nothing surprising about this thread - smokers want to do exactly as they please regardless of anyone else, and any objection provokes illogical arguments and then outrage about 'smokers rights'. You're right, it is going around in circles.

I would be pleased if they banned smoking in public. I hate it with a passion, I have always felt nauseous around cigarette smoke and now I am pregnant it makes me gag. The other day a woman was walking ahead of me and her smoke was blowing right in our faces, I also have a friend who will light up when we have an outdoor picnic which I think is very rude.

Strong perfume/aftershave makes me gag. Shall we ban that outside too?!

Strong aftershave isn't harmful though is it? Lots of things make me gag at the moment. I can't object to my 5 year old year old being subjected to a waft of Lynx but I think it is reasonable for me to be a bit pissed off that we can't walk down the street or wait for a bus without him having to breathe in second hand cigarette smoke.

When you're by a road (for example) second hand fag smoke is the least of your worries regarding what you are breathing in. In fact inside a car levels of nasty particulates are far more harmful than second hand fag smoke outside. And actually some people with asthma and other resp. conditions can be adversely affected by strong odours from aftershave/perfume.

Well I disagree. I never said that smoking should be banned outside but I would love it if it was banned. It is bad manners when people light up around other people but most people are in denial anyway.

I am asthmatic. It is triggered by heavy pollution as well as cigarette smoke. I cannot wear perfume myself as it makes me wheeze. However, a cigarette held on an adjacent table in a pub garden [usually away from themselves and towards us] triggers my asthma. Someone wearing perfume does not, unless I am cuddling them for a long time. Perfume evaporates. To liken perfume to a cigarette somebody would have to be sitting next to you spraying it at you for a period of minutes [while I eat my food] So poor analogy.
I totally agree about the particulates in car fumes. I stay away from built up areas as much as possible and campaign for cleaner technology. Cigarette smoke, in close proximity in a pub garden, still triggers my asthma, and is harmful to babies and children.

Smoking will be banned, in outside eating areas and probably other public places like bus shelters, etc, I have no doubt. If not now, then in the next ten years. The science is too great to ignore.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, dollshouse it is bad manners because you don't like it. Not all smokers have bad manners but we were forced out on the street and if that unitentionally upsets some people then that's the consequence of the ban.

This thread is more about perceived bad manners than the outside passive smoking element isn't it?

Not everyone blindly believes everything the medical profession comes up with, whether it's about smoking, aids, swine flu, bird flu, eggs etc statistics can be skewed to suit. We all read the evidence then make up our own mind as to the risks. If some of the scaremongering re passive smoking was to be believed we would all have dropped like flies pre ban. I havent seen any evidence that says there is a real risk to other peoples health by smoking outside.

Said this earlier po but will say it again - the gaping hole left by the lack of taxes for the treasury gleaned from cigarettes will stop a complete outside ban im afraid. That is unless the government increase the taxes on petrol and alcohol. There is no money left and the next government will have to decrease public spending they are hardly likely to shoot themselves in the foot by banning smoking everywhere altogether and therefore have even less money to spend on public spending.

pofaced you sound extremely sensitive re your asthma, I have a friend who is similar she is allergic to nearly everything. I'm lucky that I don't have any allergies. She was very pleased when the ban came in. If I was you I would sit inside to eat. I don't know many people who let their babies sleep near smokers, there is a choice for you. That is until they ban it completely which they may one day.

Even if you take away the health risks I would consider smoking around other people on a par with farting in someones face and most people would consider that bad manners. I expect those that do let rip in public do so because they have weak buttock muscles, if you smoke around other people you don't have an excuse, you are choosing to do something that you know most people find unpleasant therefore it is bad manners.

I wouldn't dream of meeting people if I had just eaten strong garlic unless I had brushed my teeth and had a packet of extra strong mints to hand. I wish everyone was as considerate.

LOL that I'm extremely sensitive re my asthma! Oh you do make me laugh abouteve. It is like saying 'oh you sound extremely sensitive re your arthritis/ multiple sclerosis/ psoriasis etc. Cigarettes trigger asthma because of what is in them. And there are millions of asthmatics like me, I have it mildly compared to most.

If you were me you'd sit indoors to eat. Yes, thanks, my rights are far inferior to yours, obviously.

I see countless smokers smoke over their children, so not quite sure what you are saying there.

It will be banned in public places. In ten years a lot can change. All these arguments came up when they were going to ban smoking indoors.

I'm a smoker and I agree with the smoking ban completely. But, if I'm standing outside and my smoking is bothering you, then BACK OFF. You are too close.

I don't smoke in bus-stops, I don't smoke in doorways, I don't blow smoke into non-smokers faces, I don't smoke on top of childrens prams... etc etc etc. You get rude people everywhere. Don't assume ALL smokers are rude.

It's a pain in the arse to smoke.

(P.S. Outside pediatrics is the one place you should left alone to have a smoke and a cry in peace.)