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CRB checks for all parents

193 replies

KIMItheThreadSlayer · 11/09/2009 19:17

The world HAS gone mad, Fair enough, DH is a cubs helper and has been checked, and I do think all helpers with children should be checked, but if my friend picks up my child from school one day a week every week, is that going to be seen as needing a CRB check, .....

Parents who regularly drive children for sports or social clubs will have to be vetted or face fines of up to £5,000 under new rules.

Along with parents who host foreign exchange students, they will fall under the scope of the Vetting and Barring Scheme, the Home Office has confirmed.

The measures to stop paedophiles are being introduced from next month in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Critics have branded them "insulting" and say they could deter volunteers.

A separate but aligned scheme is being set up in Scotland, to be introduced next year.

Also, anyone barred in any part of the UK will be barred from working with children and vulnerable adults anywhere else.

'Frequent, intensive'

Informal arrangements between parents will not be covered, but anyone taking part in activities involving "frequent" or "intensive" contact with children or vulnerable adults three times in a month, every month, or once overnight, must register, it has emerged.

"The government's Vetting and Barring Scheme is a child of moral panic "

Mark Easton

BBC's home editor

Read Mark's thoughts in full

Q&A: Vetting and barring scheme

Mark Easton

All 300,000 school governors, as well as every doctor, nurse, teacher, dentist and prison officer will also have to sign up.

It is thought that 11.3 million people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland - close to one in four of all adults - may register with the Home Office's Independent Safeguarding Authority [ISA].

According to BBC home affairs editor Mark Easton it is thought out of that 11.3 million, "something will come up", such as a conviction, for about one million.

"Of those million, they reckon 40,000 will be told they are unsuitable to work in those regulated areas," he said.

After November 2010 failure to register could lead to criminal prosecution and fine. The clubs themselves also face a £5,000 penalty for using non-vetted volunteers.

Children's minister Delyth Morgan said: "It is about ensuring that people in a position of trust that work frequently and intensively with children are safe to do so.

"Ultimately safeguarding children is the government's priority."

Shadow home secretary Chris Grayling said: "This new regime has the potential to be a real disaster for activities involving young people.

"We are going to drive away volunteers, we'll see clubs and activities close down and we'll end up with more bored young people on our streets."

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said the government was "in danger of creating a world in which we think every adult who approaches children means to do them harm".

But John O'Brien, programme director of the Vetting and Barring Scheme, said it would be a "once-only, simple step". He denied it was a "presumption of guilt".

He told the BBC's Today programme: "We want to make sure we have got appropriate safeguards in place so that people with backgrounds we don't want to work with children and vulnerable adults are not entering the workplace."

HAVE YOUR SAY

"Our children need protection but this is going too far"

Fran Banks, Essex

Send us your comments

Bob Reitemeier, chief executive of the Children's Society, said the new safeguards were the result of many years of research into abuse.

"What we have to understand is there's a great amount of learning that has been taking place over the years in looking at how people are abused and we have to apply that learning."

'Soft intelligence'

The scheme was recommended by the Bichard report into the Soham murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman by college caretaker Ian Huntley.

Huntley had been given the job despite previous allegations of sex with under-age girls, which were not passed on.

Two hundred case workers at the ISA's Darlington base will collect information from police, professional bodies and employers, before ruling who is barred.

Ian Huntley

Even those like Huntley, without a criminal record, could be barred if officials are convinced by other "soft intelligence" against them.

Estimates suggest the number of people facing a ban will double to 40,000 once the scheme is up and running.

Those registered will face continuing scrutiny, with existing registrations reconsidered if new evidence is disclosed.

However, Soham report author Sir Michael Bichard suggested the scheme could be revised.

He told the Independent newspaper last month: "If you visit one school in January, and then don't visit that school again, but visit another school in February and another in March, is that frequent or intensive?"

He was speaking after a number of authors, including Philip Pullman and Michael Morpurgo, complained the requirement was "insulting" and pledged to quit school visits.

Mr Pullman described the scheme as "rather dispiriting and sinister".

"It's so ludicrous that it's almost funny," he said.

Registration will cost £64 in England and Wales, but unpaid volunteers will be exempt from the charge.

OP posts:
cory · 17/09/2009 13:47

Do CRB checks only include convictions in court, then? I thought they had a much wider remit.

prettybird · 17/09/2009 15:30

From the CRB's own web-site:

A CRB check can provide access to a range of different types of information, such as, information:

  • held on the Police National Computer (PNC), including Convictions, Cautions,Reprimands and Warnings in England and Wales, and most of the relevant convictions in Scotland and Northern Ireland may also be included. (The CRB reserves the right to add new data sources;
  • held by local police forces and other agencies, relating to relevant non-conviction information;
  • held on lists maintained by the Independant Safeguarding Authority (ISA) (new window);
  • Other data sources such as British Transport Police www.btp.police.uk/ (new window); the Royal Military Police www.army.mod.uk/ (new window); the Ministry of Defence Police www.modpoliceofficers.uk/ (new window)
  • Scottish Criminal Records Office (SCRO) - if you have spent any time living in Scotland.

From the Independent Safeguarding Authority's webiste:
"Employers and service providers must refer
information to the ISA when they have dismissed
an individual, or an individual resigns, because they
harmed, or may harm, a child or vulnerable adult.
Local authorities (in their social services capacity),
professional bodies and supervisory authorities
must refer information to the ISA where:
? an individual who is working closely with
vulnerable groups has harmed, or may harm,
a child or vulnerable adult;
? an individual who might in the future work closely
with vulnerable groups has harmed, or may harm,
a child or vulnerable adult; or
? they think the ISA may consider it appropriate
to bar the individual.
Relevant information should be referred to the
ISA as soon as it becomes available.

The following organisations may refer relevant
information to the ISA:
? all other employers of those working with
children and/or vulnerable adults; and
? parents/private employers. However, their
information should be referred to a statutory
agency (for example, the social services or the
police), who will investigate the matter and
refer information to the ISA, if appropriate.
(Members of the public may also refer information
to the ISA in this way.)

Elsewhere on the CRB website, it doesn refer to the Spent Convictions Act and reminds employers that they are not supposed to make recruitment decisions on the basis of convictions that are spent

So Cory, the CRB/ISA could have that infomration included if they deemed it appropriate or relevant.

cory · 17/09/2009 15:49

thanks, prettybird

"Local authorities (in their social services capacity),
professional bodies and supervisory authorities
must refer information to the ISA where:
? an individual who is working closely with
vulnerable groups has harmed, or may harm,
a child or vulnerable adult;
? an individual who might in the future work closely
with vulnerable groups has harmed, or may harm,
a child or vulnerable adult; or
? they think the ISA may consider it appropriate
to bar the individual."

So you see, MrsEric, it's not just convictions; it's not even just people who are thought (but not proven) to have harmed a child; it's people where a SW may decide that they may hurt a child

katiestar · 17/09/2009 16:18

So for a band or a sports team which includes both adults and children, would every adult member be required to be checked ?

prettybird · 17/09/2009 16:25

Yes.

prettybird · 17/09/2009 16:37

"It will be a criminal offence for an employer
to take on an individual in regulated activity
if they fail to check that person?s status."

"In this factsheet the term ?employers? refers to both employers and managers of volunteers. The term ?employees? refers to both paid and unpaid (volunteer) work/activities."

"# Any activity of a specified nature which involves contact with children or vulnerable adults frequently, intensively and/or overnight.

Any activity allowing contact with children or vulnerable adults that is in a specified place frequently or intensively."

"?Regulated activity? is when the activity is frequent
(once a month or more) or ?intensive? (takes place
on three or more days in a 30-day period)."

Taken from the ISA's web-site.

So, Katiestar, presumably whoever ran the band who be the persona who would be held legally liable for ensuring that all the adults had their ISA certidicate.

katiestar · 17/09/2009 17:15

So in practice adult organisations are going to have to be incredibly altruistic to keep involving youngsters aren't they ?
And DS is supposed to be doing work experience this year .I wonder how that will work ?

MrsEricBanaMT · 17/09/2009 18:12

well it's part of the selection procedure. Employers look at temprement and aptitude anyway. This is just another element of that. Sorry, but again I don't see the problem.

In liberal democracy you cannot demand 'rights' if the costs of giving those rights have a high or even medium risk of harming vunlerable members of society.

prettybird · 17/09/2009 18:19

Selection procedure....... groups of people playing bands in their spare time....?

MrsEricBanaMT · 17/09/2009 18:57

how old is your son Katie? If he's about to do wrok expereience he will be post-pubeseant.

prettybird · 17/09/2009 22:12

CRB definition of a child - and therefore covered by the legislation is

"Children

The Criminal Justice Court Service Act (CJCSA) defines a child as someone who is under 18 (under 16 if the child is employed)."

Now, does work expereince count as employment or education?

My nephew is 15 and about to do some work experience - so it is a moot point. Under the new legislation, the adults he would be working with would need to have their ISA certificates.

Monkeytrews · 18/09/2009 08:13

It's not a moot point. You do like your dichotomies. lol. V DM

prettybird · 18/09/2009 08:40

I'm sorry - I don't understand why you say "it's a moot point" is very DM.

The true dichotomoy is that people on here who are opposed to this massive extension of state interest in what you do have been "accused" simultaneously of both "trendy liberalism" and DM reading

katiestar · 18/09/2009 09:22

The more you think about it the more scary it becomes.
So an adult who has had an accusation made against him (which. at best, is the judgment of one person and at worst malicious) could then be
1)unable to take part in any adult teams ,bands ,amateur dramatics or even and I'm sure a million and one other things if they include under 18s.
2 Presumably work in the majority of customer facing jobs because it may involve coming into contact with children.

It is pretty scary stuff !

Monkeytrews · 18/09/2009 15:53

Yeah, it' a funny one that. Go figure.

Actually the moot point wasn't what I referred to a vDFM. It was the love of dichotomies - or black/white thinking.

Your nephew beibg 15 and past puberty is no longer prey to paedophlies as to be a paedophile, yoiu just be sexually attracted to pre-pubesant children.

He is not yet fully matured but he is not so vulnerable as young children or adults with learning difficultes or physical conditions that would make it hard for them to defend themselves or escape.

I don't find that scenario scary at all Katie. I guess the only people who would are peoiple who have, or who know, someone who has a serious allegation against them.

katiestar · 18/09/2009 16:41

Do you not find it scary someone could maliciously or erroneously make an allegation and then that could be your livelihood and social life up in smoke

Monkeytrews · 18/09/2009 19:30

If I think about it too much, I would also find it scary that we could all be killed by a meteor hitting the earth. The chances are probably the same. So, unspurisingly, I don't spend my time worrying about it.

cory · 18/09/2009 20:19

Monkeytrews Fri 18-Sep-09 19:30:48 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

"If I think about it too much, I would also find it scary that we could all be killed by a meteor hitting the earth. The chances are probably the same."

I suspect the chances of the meteor are rather less. At least I do not know of anyone who has ever been hit by a meteor. But I am not the only person I know who has ever had an erroneous allegation made against them. And I know there are more on Mumsnet. Now come on, Mumsnetters- how many of you have been hit by meteors?

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