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CRB checks for all parents

193 replies

KIMItheThreadSlayer · 11/09/2009 19:17

The world HAS gone mad, Fair enough, DH is a cubs helper and has been checked, and I do think all helpers with children should be checked, but if my friend picks up my child from school one day a week every week, is that going to be seen as needing a CRB check, .....

Parents who regularly drive children for sports or social clubs will have to be vetted or face fines of up to £5,000 under new rules.

Along with parents who host foreign exchange students, they will fall under the scope of the Vetting and Barring Scheme, the Home Office has confirmed.

The measures to stop paedophiles are being introduced from next month in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Critics have branded them "insulting" and say they could deter volunteers.

A separate but aligned scheme is being set up in Scotland, to be introduced next year.

Also, anyone barred in any part of the UK will be barred from working with children and vulnerable adults anywhere else.

'Frequent, intensive'

Informal arrangements between parents will not be covered, but anyone taking part in activities involving "frequent" or "intensive" contact with children or vulnerable adults three times in a month, every month, or once overnight, must register, it has emerged.

"The government's Vetting and Barring Scheme is a child of moral panic "

Mark Easton

BBC's home editor

Read Mark's thoughts in full

Q&A: Vetting and barring scheme

Mark Easton

All 300,000 school governors, as well as every doctor, nurse, teacher, dentist and prison officer will also have to sign up.

It is thought that 11.3 million people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland - close to one in four of all adults - may register with the Home Office's Independent Safeguarding Authority [ISA].

According to BBC home affairs editor Mark Easton it is thought out of that 11.3 million, "something will come up", such as a conviction, for about one million.

"Of those million, they reckon 40,000 will be told they are unsuitable to work in those regulated areas," he said.

After November 2010 failure to register could lead to criminal prosecution and fine. The clubs themselves also face a £5,000 penalty for using non-vetted volunteers.

Children's minister Delyth Morgan said: "It is about ensuring that people in a position of trust that work frequently and intensively with children are safe to do so.

"Ultimately safeguarding children is the government's priority."

Shadow home secretary Chris Grayling said: "This new regime has the potential to be a real disaster for activities involving young people.

"We are going to drive away volunteers, we'll see clubs and activities close down and we'll end up with more bored young people on our streets."

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said the government was "in danger of creating a world in which we think every adult who approaches children means to do them harm".

But John O'Brien, programme director of the Vetting and Barring Scheme, said it would be a "once-only, simple step". He denied it was a "presumption of guilt".

He told the BBC's Today programme: "We want to make sure we have got appropriate safeguards in place so that people with backgrounds we don't want to work with children and vulnerable adults are not entering the workplace."

HAVE YOUR SAY

"Our children need protection but this is going too far"

Fran Banks, Essex

Send us your comments

Bob Reitemeier, chief executive of the Children's Society, said the new safeguards were the result of many years of research into abuse.

"What we have to understand is there's a great amount of learning that has been taking place over the years in looking at how people are abused and we have to apply that learning."

'Soft intelligence'

The scheme was recommended by the Bichard report into the Soham murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman by college caretaker Ian Huntley.

Huntley had been given the job despite previous allegations of sex with under-age girls, which were not passed on.

Two hundred case workers at the ISA's Darlington base will collect information from police, professional bodies and employers, before ruling who is barred.

Ian Huntley

Even those like Huntley, without a criminal record, could be barred if officials are convinced by other "soft intelligence" against them.

Estimates suggest the number of people facing a ban will double to 40,000 once the scheme is up and running.

Those registered will face continuing scrutiny, with existing registrations reconsidered if new evidence is disclosed.

However, Soham report author Sir Michael Bichard suggested the scheme could be revised.

He told the Independent newspaper last month: "If you visit one school in January, and then don't visit that school again, but visit another school in February and another in March, is that frequent or intensive?"

He was speaking after a number of authors, including Philip Pullman and Michael Morpurgo, complained the requirement was "insulting" and pledged to quit school visits.

Mr Pullman described the scheme as "rather dispiriting and sinister".

"It's so ludicrous that it's almost funny," he said.

Registration will cost £64 in England and Wales, but unpaid volunteers will be exempt from the charge.

OP posts:
abra1d · 15/09/2009 16:13

I didn't mind CRB--that didn't involve being put on a database with the option of people who may or may not have a grudge against me (by 'me' I mean individuals generally) adding possibly unfounded or unfair allegations to the database (and I should say that so far as I know there is nothing that could be thrown at me personally, but this is a general point).

I don't like databases period. They make it far too easy for unpleasant or sinister or misguided people to know too much about you. Information is frequently lost or stolen.

And most of all, this just seems OTT. A quarter of the adult population can't possibly need to be 'cleared' of having paedophile tendencies. What does that tell children? Adults are so 'bad' that they have to be checked before they're allowed even the most casual contact with kids. Even the nice old lady who listens to Year ones reading at our local school? Even the kind man who, once a month, teaches throwing at my daughter's athletics club?

BethNoire · 15/09/2009 16:17

I have a CRB to hear year 3's read, it's becuase I am alone with them unsupervised. if I were inclined it would be eprfectly easy for me to remove them from the premises so definitely warrentd the checks I think.

abra1d · 15/09/2009 16:25

Parent or other reading helpers are only ever allowed to read in the same classroom as the teacher at our school, which meant the elderly ladies never had unsupervised contact. Apart from anything, the school was so tiny there was nowhere else for them to go with the children.

mmrsceptic · 15/09/2009 17:14

this is just making me more and more cross

complete madness

this is the start of the complete breakdown of society

society is based on trust: now we are to be told who to trust

we won't be able to think for ourselves

I have trusted many people with my children over the years, I feel revolted at the implication that I should have "established" they were not paedophiles first

I am revolted by this, completely revolted

mmrsceptic · 15/09/2009 17:15

beth

for god's sake

you can listen to my child read without a crb

MrsEricBanaMT · 15/09/2009 17:22

society is based on trust? Where'd you get that from? If you even take a moment to think about that for yourself, you would see how ludicrous it is

mmrsceptic · 15/09/2009 17:23

oh for pete's sake

yes, it's based on trust

god almighty what a stupid thing to say mt

MrsEricBanaMT · 15/09/2009 17:36

Bare with me. If it's based on trust, why do we have laws?

abra1d · 15/09/2009 17:50

On that basis there should be laws for everything. The time you send your child to bed. What you feed them. What time they go to bed.

It's unworkable to have laws for everything. Every single society that's tried it (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) has ultimately collapsed because it's incompatible with normal human life.

MrsEricBanaMT · 15/09/2009 18:01

I'm not sure what your saying Abraid, that society is based on trust. Society as a whole and not just hippy communes or kibutz?

katiestar · 15/09/2009 18:01

Well I'm really concerned I have been a parent helper at our school for years and never had a CRB (which I thibnk is odd and wrong) although I'm often alone with children.But now the responsibility has shifted from the school to me to make sure I am checked is that right ?

I am a memeber of a dramatic society sometimes we give teenagers the chance to get involved if they are very keen.Does this mean every member of our group has to be managed , the officers ,or just who happens to be directing that production ?

Would for example a grandad who was kind enough to be father xmas once a year at the school party have to be checked too.?

BethNoire · 15/09/2009 18:06

'beth

for god's sake

you can listen to my child read without a crb '

No, I can't because the Head has always required it.

So it's CRB or don't go. It says in the newsletter- we'd like helpers but you will need a CRB first.

BethNoire · 15/09/2009 18:07

Abra1d- at our school I sit in the coridor with 2 children at a time; the school in tiny with no hope of expansion (conservation area) and neitehr spare classrooms nor room in the class- ioriginally ahd about 80 kids now about 250 LOL

BethNoire · 15/09/2009 18:08

katie- justa sk the Secretary. it's not up to you to get checked because the LEA will fund your appliation through teh school, making it free to you. Secretary should hold a stock of forms in readiness.

moobell · 15/09/2009 20:44

Thanks mmrsceptic, and Bethnoire - the only problem with that is that I always feel people may think far worse things if you refuse but say you can't explain - that can often have a knock on effect on how your child is treated etc. But I take your point. Happily we are moving and our new group leader does appear to be taking your stance more. I don't 'have' to take turns at helping out. I would love to help, having been a Guide myself as a girl and my mother having been a Queen's Guide in her time in the movement, but at least we have our life with our wonderful kids.

mmrsceptic · 15/09/2009 20:58

lol i was so gripped by that exchange i fell asleep

it's "bear" with me

laws are based on the concept of trust -- they are the safety net for when trust is broken

mmrsceptic · 15/09/2009 20:59

good luck moobell

bethnoireof course I mean it as an indicator that it's possble to trust people without a crb

mollyroger · 15/09/2009 20:59

we were 'strongly advised' to ensure our school's father xmas had been crb checked - even though he was a father of a child at the shcool

MrsEricBanaMT · 15/09/2009 21:05

That'll learn me

Aren't you thinking of the social contract though? Or something like it?

Only an idiot would found a society on trust knowing that human beings are competitive animals

mmrsceptic · 15/09/2009 21:16

yawn

BethNoire · 15/09/2009 21:20

You know, i can't say I am surprised about father Christmas's etc being as I remmeber attending a similar event when I was perhaps 10, noting the entertainer was a bit odd with my sister and not realising what was going on (she was 5) until he was jailed for paedophilia and basically groping kidsimnhis act years later.

Which is perhaps part of it: because of that, because of physical abuse I endured, becuase of time working with a kid's chairity I don't have that innate trust.Oh I don't suspect people or anything but I am aware I am consciouasly alert.

BethNoire · 15/09/2009 21:20

MMR youa re making yourself look a fool with your rude remarks

Debate yes, but that only works if your espect other peoples viewpoints or at the very least their right to hold them.

MrsEricBanaMT · 15/09/2009 21:23

Yes, well thats because the Stasi of the police state we undoubtedly live in know that paedophiles seek out jobs that will put them in positions of trust with kids, such as Father Xmas, or teaching assistants, or youth club volunteer. The facist pigs. How dare they protect our kids!

mmrsceptic · 15/09/2009 21:31

bethnoire, i wasn't rude to you I'm saying I would trust you to read with my children and I don't need a crb to tell me that

the yawn was for mt, and use of ludicrous and an idiot, and i'm just so bored by that, and stupid unnecessary sarcasm

really bored, it's just pointless

i profoundly disagree with your point of view, profoundly, bethnoire but at least it's worth thinking about and well articulated

my "for god's sake"? because you seem to think you need this advanced thing yourself -- of course you don't, you really don't

ChookKeeper · 15/09/2009 21:42

I have read all of this thread over the past few days but can't remember if it's been mentioned about the 'extra' information that may be held on individuals but is not included on CRB checks. What does happen is that the organisation requesting the CRB gets a letter saying that there is a concern about the applicant but they can't tell what it's about and the applicant can't be told that this additional 'intelligence' exists.

So as the employer you can't find out what it is from the authorities and you can't ask the applicant or you'll get into trouble with said authorities. So you don't employ the person or take them on a volunteer and they haven't got a clue that they have this hanging over them.

There was a feature on Radio 4 about this.

I'm so glad we live in a fair and just society