DM Article - being anti-wife-beating is dangerous feminism

[PerArduaAdNauseum]

"Pupils as young as five will be taught about the evils of 'wife beating' and the need to form healthy relationships.

The lessons are part of a controversial drive, unveiled today, to reduce violence against women and young girls.

They will include teaching boys that they must not beat their partners or any other female.

Last night, critics warned that ministers are cramming the already over-stuffed National Curriculum with lessons that should be taught in the home or in the community."

Here

Sorry for linking to the Hate Mail, but followed a tweeted link and was so appalled I'm actually in the process of commenting on their website - once I've breathed in and out a few times...

As the comments include: "This is the reason this country is in the state that it is.
Because of feminism... This woman is an idiot, can she not realise it is people like her have broke-up the family unit . children have no respect for their famillies or other people, and girls are the worst these days for violence.

Now can we please remove this lot freaks with their so-called ideology NOW and give this country back to the people of this land.

• Lydia, manchester uk, 05/8/2009 09:20"

Maybe some of you would like to join me?

RedDeadFail ,

Just call me the poster child for care in the community.

I wont apologise for calling a spade a spade.

Ignore, ignore, ignore...

atlantis if you truly believe that people are trying to sweep paedophilia under the carpet than I suggest you contact somebody asap. The Daily Mail if you really must as it's certainly more newsworthy than the rest of their dirge.

It's ironic isn't it? That you so misunderstand paedophilia yet accuse others of the same thing.

I am so proud to be a member of polite society and not the baying itchy pitchfork brigade.

Oh dear, and I thought we were all grown up here, who let the five year old in?

no, it isn't a literal non-nonsense term - the word you are groping for is "paedophile"

and you are not a noble crusader for good old British plain-speaking, you are a vicious ignorant bigot

it's a disgusting term and you are deluded in thinking that most decent people find it acceptable

PerArduaAdNauseum can I just tell you that I adore your name? Always have.

RedDeadFail ,

How can you misunderstand paedophillia? (PMSL)

They do what they do and they do it to children. Enough said, (only too happy to run outside and get my pitchfork).

And my previous post was to PAAN.

you are right PerArdua

ignoring now....

on the original point though, does anyone have any real, logically based arguments against teaching children about healthy relationships and gender relations? I'd be interested to hear them.

Greensleeves ,

Wow I always wondered where Labour got their votes from and now I know.

The original article is shocking even for the DM

Society needs to learn that DV is wrong and unacceptable.

I have seen feminists (of which I am proud to be included) blamed for lots of things but... unbelievable!

it's not that shocking

it's just the usual "bloody women, they're asking for it" schtick

depressing to see women chiming in though

Oh RedDead - it's my 'the world's sucking arse atm' name - when I'm happier I'm a dreadpirate...

Back to what would be an interesting debate - as Greensleeves says, schools are a part of society. I'm more than happy that my 5yo gets educated on societal values and norms, in addition to the basics of literacy and numeracy.

I'm also interested to see how the core subjects will develop - given that we now have tinterweb and google at our fingertips (strokes phone lovingly) I think it's even more important that we find some way of teaching our children how to research and use their discretion, so that they can sift and extract information from the staggering amount of sources available. I do wonder if this will mean less of the traditional teaching (learning countries, capitals, dates etc), but will enable our kids to form intelligent opinions and synthesise data in a way useful to them. I can see some of this happening in project work, but as I say, DS is only 5 so we've a way to go.

"children have no respect for their famillies or other people" so you combat that by not teaching pupils that hurting women and children is unnacceptable? How?

Greensleeves - re the logical arguments - I'd love to hear them too! But what are the odds that it would descend into the sort of Christian Fundamentalism that gives Home Edding a bad name...

It's not a term I find acceptable either. You are coming across as quite mad and very nasty, atlantis.

greensleeves, maybe not shocking, maybe expected in DM but I find the perspective shocking. I regularly deal with domestic violence in my professional life and I am sadly very aware that many people turn a blind eye and accept it as 'normal' behaviour.

Depressing is probably a better term though.

lol, that's all we need - the hardcore God Squad descending in a torrent of righteous ire

but those people object to other areas of the curriculum too, and the mechanism is already in place for them to withdraw their children if they wish to, so we can take their views with a pinch of salt

Re: the children having no respect thing - I believe that one of the keys to this is society as a whole demonstrating more respect for children. Children who are respected and treated as intelligent beings with the right to express themselves start from a much stronger position when it comes to understanding the need for respect in adult settings and relationships, IMO.

I have 2 boys and I would be more than happy for them to sit in this kind of lesson.

It is 2009 and people are describing teaching our children to respect each other as "dangerous feminism". Depressing and shocking all at the same time.

The term KF does not bother me, what does bother me is people who are more disgusted by a term of phrase than the act itself.

I would never vote for anyone who had links with PIE, or similar organisations, and I would be very suspect of people who knowingly did.

I would also be very suspicious of anyone who stood up for the rights of KF and if they had children would question their parenting of those children.

Yes, I guess I am a pitchfork woman too.

While the police are doing all they can to squash these (using term very lightly) people, the government are sending them back out onto the street. Now that's disgusting.

As for teaching five year old's about DV, if this is actually the case, I think the current system of teaching the older children in secondary school is a better medium than primary children.

As for 'withdrawing' their children from school, it would be much better if parents did not have to do this just to gain a decent education for their children, I pity those who can not afford to go private, both my husband and I work two jobs to ensure our children get a good well rounded education and not have to sit through all this 'rights and responsibilities' claptrap that their parents should be telling them.

who is more disgusted by the term than by the act itself? What a bizarre remark

GS, I am guessing my finger is pointing in your direction, you were, after all the one who called the poster (atlantis) bigoted, were you not? Claimed she/ he , did not understand paedophiles? You were then standing up for the rights of paedophiles and Harriet Harman's fight to get those rights heard? You were, therfore, more disgusted by two little words than the fact that someone ( Ms Harman) who supported this cause was actually in such a position of power.

No, the bulk of your post is untrue

I didn't say anything about atlantis' understanding of paedophilia, nor did I comment on the rights of paedophiles, or Harriet Harman

is there a full moon?

I objected to the term "kiddie fiddler" because it's offensive, particularly to those who have been on the receiving end of child abuse.

Anyone else noticed that sonicxtra followed atlantis onto the 'smoking in cars' thread, when atlantis was telling us all that oxygen in the atmosphere has depleted 50% in the last 50 years?

What on Earth does Harriet Harman (who I am not a fan of) have to do with paedophilia?

KF is offensive so stop using it.

Crackfox - she was on the National Council for Civil Liberties when they invited the Paedophilia Information Exchange to affiliate, back in the 70s. Frankly I'm hoping that it was a result of too many parties in the 60s. But I don't see that the past of one woman affects the validity of the proposed curriculum additions?