Successful lawyer drowned herself

[foxinsocks]

story today on the bbc

I read this today at work and it made me feel really sad . Poor woman.

Miss Thompson said:"Ms Bailey was a very capable and professional woman and a loving mother of three young children who found it hard to meet the demands of motherhood and the high standard she had set herself."

It was that quote that did it for me.

There seems to be shame in saying, 'I can't cope...' or, 'I need help...'

Have friends in the legal profession, and it isn't the most sympathetic environment. One of my friends was asked at interview what her plans were for having a family and when she said, 'hmm, not sure you should ask me that,' they said, 'not sure we should offer you the job either...'

Poor woman. Poor family

God no. She couldn't possibly show that she wasn't coping least not now when lawyers are being made redundant left, right and centre and even partners are feeling the pinch. It's so very tough in the legal world at the moment. And that's without all the additional stress and worry being a parent can bring let alone PND.

Selfish? Pathetic? Nope. Very human and vulnerable.

Terribly sad story.

och, 'hold them close', that's so sad. the poor man must have been petrified getting that text.

Very sad story

I agree with scottishmummy though - it's too simplistic to reduce the cause to pressure of work - clearly some postnatal depression must have played a part.

Fair point, Annie. Bit difficult to distinguish a highly driven person whatever their field, but on the other hand, most people, regardless of sex, who are lawyers in a City firm set quite a high standard for themselves anyway which is why they are successful. She probably just didn't know how to turn off the competitive switch.

Lockets - I didn't mean that all people wouldn't understand just that a lot probably wouldn't.

I think sympathetic law firms in the City are rare as hen's teeth. I cut down my hours to be able to fit around school before/after care. The only thing that has been reduced is my salary and the time at my desk. My workload has in fact increased and I am expected to do as much as my full time colleagues. It has been made clear to me that my firm has bent over backwards to accommodate my new hours. I have cut back my paid weekly hours by 4 (hours). I was the first person in the entire firm to request flexible working and I didn't get anything like the request I made.

It means that I can drop and collect my son at school (7.30am to 6.30pm) but I still have to work evenings and weekends to keep up. I also use my holiday allowance to attend school functions when my male colleagues just skive off to attend and come in late (no way I could get away with that). I have reached the stage that if I didn't have to work I wouldn't.

Just so sad. Her poor poor family.

I don't think it has to be a lot more than pressure at work. After dd1 I was still at a city law firm. Had some awful things said to me (shouldn't have had her, apparently), even by male partners who had children themselves. It is dreadful, but you are a slave to targets. Even if you have your hours reduced, doesn't mean your targets are reduced too. Not being allowed to have "out of office" messages because your always on call... it's shite, it really is. A young, single person who's not bothered about having a life might find it ok.

I moved to the provinces. I wish she had been able to see a way out. No way pathetic or selfish. I just wish someone could have helped - it's so awful.

The thing is, you think you can do it. You believe that you are doing it and then your inner minds screaming wont stop and you act. Often it's not even planned, you just do it.
Very sad, very very sad and we as women need to understand what was going through her mind, not condemn her as pathetic and selfish! If you have never felt suicidal, you are the lucky one. It isn't selfish, it is desperate.

Sorry, I mean can do it all and think you are doing it all.

It's more likely to be the individual cases they work on than work overload that's causing the stress and problems Riven.

It really is tragic. Companies are responsible and liable for minimising stress in the workplace.

The family should sue and make an example of them.

Oh my goodness what a sad, sad story. She must have felt that they would be better without her, what a terrible place for her to find herself.

Having been part of the women's movement for many years I am so angry that the corporate, capitalist, predominately male hierarchy that dominates business and politics subverted the call for women to be have families and rewarding careers. The belief was that employers would accomodate the needs of families, parents and children by prioritising flexible working, allowing mothers to work around the needs of their families, supported by excellent child-care.

How could we have been so naive? I'm so sad for this poor woman and her family. She's not selfish or pathetic, (those who think so should look inside themselves for empathy for others) but a fellow human being overwhelmed by circumstance and her body's responses.

Thinking about this one a little more - and perhaps it is unfeeling to speculate - but of course this case has struck a chord.

It occurs to me that Ms Bailey's death probably had less than most people think to do with the pressure of caseloads and billable hours, and recoveries and all that. Because by the age of 41 one is literally too thick-skinned to feel that sort of pressure any more. It's water off a duck's back. It has to be. If you were vulnerable to that pressure, you would have left the profession years or decades previously.

If there was a job-related element, it seems to me that the issue might have been to do more with the recession, and the uncertainties that we all face in terms of being able to provide for our families. In an environment where we all have fixed (to an extent) overheads and every firm is cutting back and no firms are hiring ...

I don't know Quat.

I do think, especially if you are a coper, there is a certain amount of pressure you cope with. And it can go on for years and years and years until something happens and you just cannot cope with that level of pressure any more.

I don't think you get to a magic age and it stops. Especially if you have carried on having children. I feel a certain equilibrium about my life now but I would not say I feel less pressure than I did 5 years ago.

But one thing I do know for sure, working full time does take its toll, especially in high pressured jobs. I was supposed to be on leave from Friday to Monday last weekend but there was a crisis that needed to be sorted out so I spent most of Friday working. It made me absolutely livid that I had to do it - livid with my work, livid with myself for doing it (because I knew if I didn't, it would escalate but also, it would ruin the whole weekend if I didn't resolve it), livid that it was a day I was supposed to spend with the children (and I so look forward to them) that was wasted. I took the day's leave back but that's not the point.

I think the recession plays a part as you also know you can't leave and get another job easily and we are up against people without children who can work all the hours god gives to demonstrate their 'committment'.

It's not easy at the moment. And although I'm sure there probably was some degree of mental health problem that contributed, I am damn sure that her working arrangements didn't help!

I do think employers should have a responsibility to keep an eye on its staff and not only the junior ones where often more focus is placed. It's a health and safety requirement in fact. And I especially think this should be applied to women in their first year back from maternity leave.

Lots of women post on mumsnet about their difficulties in returning to work and a lot of people state how it does get easier after around 6 months to a year. But I do think there should be some sort of support offered by employers to help smooth the return to work because it is a difficult time and you have expectations of yourself and your employer has expectations of you back at work.

poor children & husband
suicide is never the way.

I would have to take exception to that Quattro. I am exactly that age and it's only been in the past year or so that I have found the work/life balance to be as intense. I was working fewer hours when the dds were babies and the job was fine (teacher) even with the added responsibilities I had in my dept.

Two years down the line, though, I work 4 days a week but am involved with several whole-school projects as well as my normal teaching and the workload is huge. And yet, I love the job, the school and the Head are very supportive and flexible, I work very near to school so I don't have the travelling stress anymore, dh is very very hands on with housework and shared care for the kids and my dds are settled and happy with their childminder/school and I get to pick them off twice a week.

So why have I been having palpitations, bowel and skin problems? Because, even though in theory I've 'got it all', it's bloody hard and I'm (apparently, according to the GP) very stressed. I didn't realise I was so stressed out until I started feeling very ropey. You'd think, wouldn't you that at 41 and after 16 years of teaching I'd be too 'thick-skinned' to feel that sort of pressure? Well, it seems not. Because I haven't had this sort of pressure before: i.e. responsible and very full workload plus two small children.

That poor woman and her family - it's all too sad for words

Itchy you are describing a situation where your levels of work changed, so that is different.

I'm interested in the idea that after years of the stress just bouncing off (which assuredly must have been the case with Ms Bailey) you suddenly succumb.

Because if that's the case, how were her employers meant to identify that she was having trouble coping?

Do we think that for every extra child, change in work-circumstances, etc there should be additional checks and balances to make sure the individual really is coping?

Her work may not have changed, but her circumstances had: she'd only just returned to work after having her 3rd child. And as other posters have suggested, it would be greatly beneficial for returning women if they could just a have that little bit more leaway perhaps. Not meaning that they need to make concessions, which might be patronising, but just an acknowledgement that things may have become even harder and will take some adjusting to. There's no telling really what the 'trigger' might be for individuals, and not everyone will need extra support, but it would be really refeshing if employers could just bear in mind these huge changes that occur when you have a baby and return to work. Maybe HR could arrange the odd informal coffee to assess how an employee is coping?

Of course, some people will say that if you are returning to work, esp f/t, you owe it to your employer to make sure you are 'fit for work'. But surely it's unreasonable to expect to pick up where you left off when something so life-changing has happened? and how do you know if you're OK until you return to work and start the unholy juggle that being a working mum entails?

Even in the environment I work in, I can see that some colleagues don't give a second thought to your home circumstances because as long as you're there in your set hours and you do what you do well, it gets taken for granted. And if you mention your childcare issues more than twice in a term you can see some people going (granted it's the childless ones mostly and usually female, interestingly enough). Like I said, my workplace is actually very good, but in an environment such as law, as described elsewhere on this thread, it can actually be a very hostile and cut-throat business, and weaknesses can be leapt on and exploited. It's barbaric really.