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Original poster

Top black academic arrested - Obama comments

95 replies

kathyis6incheshigh · 24/07/2009 10:49

here

I am shocked & fascinated by this story.
I just can't see how the police can justify the arrest unless Gates was actually violent (as opposed to just angry) with the police officer, and there's no evidence he was.

And good for Obama in being willing to come out and say that the police acted 'stupidly', rather than saying something bland and trying to avoid the issue.

OP posts:
ilovemydogandmrobama · 24/07/2009 17:47

Nancy -- why can't you get over that the police in this instance are racist First you suggested that no one would know what happened other than the police and Mr Gates, but there isn't a discrepancy between the version of events.

What does racism look like, because to me, it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, it's a duck.

SofiaAmes · 24/07/2009 17:58

Never mind that Prof. Gates is in his 60's, greying beard, glasses, walks with a cane and is exceedingly short for a man - Hardly a threatening figure.
Gates even said that he didn't fault the neighbors for calling the police, or the police for showing up. He just faulted them for their behavior once they did show up.

Nancy66 · 24/07/2009 18:01

ilove - never said it wasn't racist. But you're wrong to way there aren't variations in the two versions of events. There are.

SofiaAmes · 24/07/2009 18:03

ilovemydog, the boston police are notorious for being racist. When I went to uni in cambridge 20+ years ago they were and by all accounts things haven't changed much.
Then again, boston doesn't hold the monopoly on that. A few years ago I had to testify against the (white) police in Harlesden, London on behalf o a young black man they had brutalized and arrested and then charged with gbh on a police officer. Luckily for him I (a middle class white woman) had witnessed the whole thing.

SofiaAmes · 24/07/2009 18:04

whoops, misunderstood you ilove - I see we are agreeing...sorry

LeninGrad · 24/07/2009 19:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
kathyis6incheshigh · 24/07/2009 19:34

It would be quite useful to know the President if this sort of thing happened to you, as well.
'You don't know who you're messing with' would be far less meaningful for your average academic, even a Harvard one....

OP posts:
KIMItheThreadSlayer · 24/07/2009 19:58

Instead of getting pissed off and shouting racist he should have just shown his ID.

I have a friend who is Jamaican and has been stopped by the police more then any of my white friends ever have, when I ask him if it pissed him off he said no, he is a young (ish) black male, a lot of crime is committed by young black males so it makes sence that that is the demographic the police stop.

It would piss me off though I admit

KIMItheThreadSlayer · 24/07/2009 20:01

SofiaAmes are you a Harlesdan local? I grew up there, (just being nosy)

SofiaAmes · 24/07/2009 20:56

Hi Kim, no actually a Californian. I just happened (well, not really - picked it because curried goat is my favorite food on the planet) to live in Harlesden. I loved it. Dh thought I was crazy when I first picked out the neighborhood. He grew up in Hartlepool and probably hadn't met more than a few non-whites in his entire childhood.

I get your point, that if he was a young black male wearing a hoodie, then it might be understandable that the police wouldn't want to take chances, but Prof Gates, by no stretch of anyone's imagination fit the "profile" of a gangbanger, except that he happened to be black. If that had been my mum or dad, no one would have been arresting them. I think, however, he did show his id (Harvard Professor ID), but they weren't satisfied and wanted his driver's license too. And could I just add, that I am the last person to jump on the "I'm always a victim because I'm black" bandwagon. Dh had a young black kid from Stonebridge laboring for him. When we were working on our house in Acton, the street happened to be a short cut for the local police cars. Our laborer, the second he spotted a police car down the street, would put up his hood, put on rubber gloves, and pretend he was breaking into dh's car (when he was actually just cleaning it). And then he would complain that the police were racially profiling him.
But back to Gates....I suspect the police were rude (there are plenty of ways to ask politely for someone's id) and Gates took offence and was rude back. That's still no reason to arrest him.

SofiaAmes · 24/07/2009 20:58

kathy, Pres Obama, described at some point, cabs in manhattan passing him by because of the color of his skin. I witnessed that frequently when I lived in NYC.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 24/07/2009 21:23

The police assumed that Prof Gates was in the wrong place, based on his skin color. The neighbor was justified in reporting what she thought was a crime to the police, but they didn't attend the incident with an open mind, or a calming influence, but rather escalated the situation rapidly.

Am sure Prof Gates wasn't exactly the most easy person to deal with at the time, but that's not the point. The police and a citizen are not equal. The police are representatives of the state and have powers of arrest, detention and can control rights of legal advice etc, so to arrest someone for disorderly conduct seems like a vendetta.

Don't get me started on the LAPD

SofiaAmes · 24/07/2009 21:36

Agree with you there. My friend's teenage son was stopped and frisked by the police. They are hispanic and they live in a poor gangland neighborhood. However, my friend's son has hair to his shoulders, is kind of sloppy and chubby and definitely not wearing the latest fashion and was carrying a backpack full of school books and was on his way to the library (as he had told the police) to study and type up his term paper. He didn't have a picture id other than his high school id and library card (how many gang members do you think have library cards?!) The police questioned why he was out of school in the middle of the day, and didn't believe him that he was on spring break because his school is on "Track B" which is a year round school program with different holidays than a traditional school schedule (which is what they do in poor overcrowded neighborhoods). They put him and his friend up against a wall and frisked them roughly and wouldn't let them continue to the library. I think it's absolutely pathetic that a policeman doesn't even know the habits and customs of his own beat. He should have known when the local schools were on holiday and he should have known that ALL the gang bangers have shaved heads (or at least greased back ponytails). So after that, my friend's son (a straight A student) was too frightened to go to the library after school and she couldn't afford to buy him a computer and go on the internet. I got a local charity organization to help them out with a computer, but it's really just wrong.

HerBeatitude · 24/07/2009 22:02

ROFL at SofiaAmes Acton Hoodie Labourer.

That is quite funny though...

cherryblossoms · 24/07/2009 23:23

Goodness - I hadn't read this story in the paper; very glad you posted it, kathy.

I'm really shocked about Henry Louis Gates being arrested, and then, just very sad about the implications. And i do think there is a truly huge implication of racism. And yes, yes, i know I wasn't there, but still ... I cannot turn it around to interpret the events in any other way.

But pleased at Obama's response.

edam · 24/07/2009 23:41

Impressed (again) by Obama.

Gates was right, the cops are going to regret this, and so they ruddy well should! They'd seen his ID. The arrest was borne out of embarrassment/panic/spite whatever but certainly not out of any need to protect the public or investigate a crime.

UnquietDad · 24/07/2009 23:46

I do think that, even if you are someone terribly important (and he is) saying "don't you know who I am?" (which is pretty much what "You don't know who you're messing with" means) comes across as a little... arrogant.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that the police were misguided in this incident.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 25/07/2009 00:04

How do you know he said that UQD?

UnquietDad · 25/07/2009 00:19

Sorry, it's reported in the news item which kathyis6incheshigh linked to above.

SofiaAmes · 25/07/2009 00:39

It kind of doesn't matter what he said. A good policeman should have figured out how to diffuse the situation. Don't forget that Prof Gates, had just returned minutes before from a month's trip to China, presumably just off a 16 hour flight, arrived at his house to find that he couldn't get in and had to break into his own house. It is perfectly understandable that he might be a bit testy. A good policemen should be capable of calming down someone in that situation, rather than inciting them to further anger. Maybe if the cop had offered some words of sympathy and disappointment that he had to endure such an ordeal, Prof Gates might have remained calm and happily showed him some id. When I call my bank and ask for information, they don't say to me "we think you are a thief and you had better tell us exactly who you are or we are going to arrest you." Instead they say something along the lines of " for your security and safety we have to ask you a few short questions which will protect you and your assets..." The officer said in his statement that he had already decided that Prof Gates was in his own home before asking for his id. Maybe he didn't ask for it very nicely. My parents happen to know Prof. Gates and said that he is a very nice, quiet well mannered gentleman.

cherryblossoms · 25/07/2009 00:40

Thing is, UQD, he is sooooo famous, and the ramifications of arresting him in this situation are soooo big, it would very nearly be a dereliction of duty NOT to say that.

It's weird really, because there's a whole sub-story, a very sad story, about why these cops didn't know who he was. Because it is very likely they didn't. Which tells it's own story.

In a way, it's almost the crux of the issue. With an individual being subsumed into a powerful, pre-existing, racialised narrative.

So it doesn't matter when he shows them his i.d. - and his right to be there.

Sorry if that's incoherent - I really am shocked. And at the same time shocked I'm shocked.

But I am still pleased about Mr O.

SofiaAmes · 25/07/2009 00:56

or why his neighbors didn't recognize him?

cherryblossoms · 25/07/2009 01:05

And I didn't even think of that.

Honestly, the implications of this story (race/power/class/culture/status: how they interplay) is just making my head hurt. I honestly don't think I have the brain cells to deal with it.

It'll be interesting to see how it gets boiled down in the media/academic writing.

SofiaAmes · 25/07/2009 01:18

I have to say, some years ago, my next door neighbor's house burned halfway to the ground. I was the only one in the neighborhood who called the fire department and was aware that she had just moved out that day. No one came to see if the elderly widower who had been living in the house for the last 50 years until literally hours before the fire started, needed help. Always kind of amazed me that they were so unaware of the people living around them. I live in a residential upper middle class neighborhood where everyone has plenty of time to complain about the wrong people parking in front of their house.

SofiaAmes · 25/07/2009 01:18

Yes, I think there was a lot of testosterone flying. Don't suppose any of it would have happened if it had been two women (of any color).

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