Top black academic arrested - Obama comments

[kathyis6incheshigh]

here

I am shocked & fascinated by this story.
I just can't see how the police can justify the arrest unless Gates was actually violent (as opposed to just angry) with the police officer, and there's no evidence he was.

And good for Obama in being willing to come out and say that the police acted 'stupidly', rather than saying something bland and trying to avoid the issue.

The prof had reasonable cause to be angry, was in his own home (where being angry isn't a crime) didn't lay a finger on the policeman, who was in the wrong (albeit not deliberately) and who should have said, 'I'm terribly sorry sir, my mistake. I'll ensure it doesn't happen again" and left. Not clapped the bloke in irons!

Dittany you are probably right.
I have an image of a British bobby going 'Terribly sorry to have bothered you sir, have a nice evening' but perhaps they're scared of using normal courtesy in case it = admitting liability.

but they weren't in the wrong, the person who reported it wasn't in the wrong. they did the right thing,they thought they saw people breaking into a house,they reported it to the police,and the police were absolutely in the right to investigate and ensure that a crime was not being commited.
that's them up to that point (the point at which you say they should have apologised profusely) completely in the right.
now while i'd agree it would be courteous and expected by most to make an acknowledgment of the inconvenience and polite apology "sorry for the mix up have a good day" (but certainly no need for profuse apology), but equally i'd expect an acknowledgment from the home owner that they were doing there job and thank them for responding to the report as next time there is a report it might be an actual break in and they'd be glad of the response.

this is exactly what happened when the police where called on me for breaking into my own house (one was indian and i'm white do you think it was a racially motivated harrasment?) i got my i.d. proved who i was, answered their questions and then they said sorry for the inconvenience and i said nonsense you were doing your job thanks for being so thorough.

Yes, but homeowners who have broken no law and are just quietly living in their own home don't have any obligation to apologise or placate the police who are treating them as possible criminals. Thought it might be nice if they are charming and Stephen Fryish, they are also allowed to be tetchy, tired (he'd just got back from China and his door wouldn't bloody open) and irritable. The people are not the servants of the police, but vice versa.
The prof may well have been angry, pissed off etc, but he was in his own home and I would say, allowed to be. Certainly it is not against the law to be hacked off in your own home. Or if it is, I should be banged up somewhere for life!

"but equally i'd expect an acknowledgment from the home owner that they were doing there job and thank them for responding to the report "

That would indeed be polite and civilised behaviour. But not worth arresting someone over if they are graceless enough not to say it!

so does this mean that everyone who is stopped and breathalised or have their tax/insurance checked at random has the right to be insulting towards the officers doing so,once they have not been drinking and have their documents in order?
i mean they haven't broken any law and are in their own car.

they didn't call round to his home because they thought being a black man living in a nice home was a crime, they came round because someone reported a possible break in and he was asked to prove who he was. perfectly reasonable behaviour on the part of the police.

Yes, they have a right to be grumpy, hacked off and to say if they think the police are being racist without the threat of being arrested.

I mean, suppose homeowner gets increasingly rude and instead of saying 'Thanks for doing your job' says 'Give me your badge number and name because I'm going to report you.' that is cue for policeman to say 'Here is my badge number sir, I repeat I was only doing my job, thank you for your co-operation and good night' and leave. Then he can have a rant back at the station if he wants.

well that should make policing easier. respond to a report where the suspect is black and if the information you receive is wrong, you are a racist.

But people are frequently rude to the police when they've been stopped for something and everything's in order. Surely any traffic policeman hears 'Do you know who I am?' at least once a week and 'Why don't you spend your time catching crooks instead of harrassing innocent motorists?' twenty times a day but doesn't arrest the person concerned?!
I also find it hard to believe that in this country a policeman who stops and searches a black guy and gets ranted at for racism would generally arrest him, too.... though I bet it happens sometimes.

It is a matter of free speech, especially in the US. If the prof thought the policeman is behaving in a racist way, he was free to say so. It may not be very nice, it may not even be true, but it is his right.

"But not worth arresting someone over if they are graceless enough not to say it!
"

absolutely not.couldn't agree more.

but if they become abusive and non-coroporative to the point where the police believe a situation may escelate (and if i was a police officer and accused of racism i would want the entirety of the rest of the investigation to occur in the full view of my supervisors and superiors), then who is to say what is reasonable and not, when none of us were there,have seen footage or a transcript of what was said.
that is all my point on this matter has been. not that the police officer definitely isn't racist,he very very may well be, there's enough evidence there for it to be debated.
or that the prof was definitely beligerent and abusive enough to warrant an arrest, may well have been,may nbot.
just simply that because it's a wealthy educated black man who's been arrested doesn't automatically make it a racist incident.

In the US the first amendment means that anyone IS free to be as beligerent and abusive towards the police as they like. They can't hit them, but they can say what they want. Its part of the constitution. There was no breach of the peace as the bloke was in his own home. The situation could not have escalated if the police had just left as soon as they'd seen the ID.

ah yes but he doesn't have a right to abuse a police officer which some reports seem to indicate with the now infamous "your mamma" line he used according to the cops and reports that he was growing increasingly irate and being non-coroporative.
perhaps it was his education which scared them because a well educated harvard professor is more likely to pursue successfull legal paths than a standard citizen, so as i said they may have wanted the rest of the encounter conducted somewhere that could be monitored by others to protect themselves.

this is all guess work just like all the racism theories, is my only point.
without being there or hearing transcripts of what occurred how can we possibly deem this a racist incident?

Mayorquimby

I suggest you educate yourself about the history of black people and the police and then you will realise how smug and uninformed you sound with regards to the dynamics that exist between the black community and the police.

"(and if i was a police officer and accused of racism i would want the entirety of the rest of the investigation to occur in the full view of my supervisors and superiors),"

That is an interesting point. If the policeman was starting to realise he was very much out of his depth at that point his instinct may well have been to allow it to escalate partly in order to get back-up, even if in those circumstances it was ultimately the wrong instinct.

Re escalation, what I think makes it clear the policeman was not acting sensibly is that he had already seen the ID. If he hadn't he would have been in a difficult position because he couldn't have left. What happened was that having shown his ID, Gates then demanded the policeman's badge number and name. The easiest way to avoid escalation of the row then is to give the badge number and withdraw, because now he had seen the ID he could leave. (Even with Gates' tirades echoing down the street after him.)

I'm not suggesting this was an easy position for this policeman to be in and I do feel very sorry for him. Sorrier in fact than I do for Gates, as the whole thing will have done no harm at all to Gates' career and a lot of harm to the policeman's. However, I do agree with Obama that what the policeman did was stupid. It may come down to lack of training and to institutional culture in the police force rather than him being a particularly stupid or racist individual, but it was stupid nonetheless.

(Actually what I admired about Obama's comments as that he didn't force the connection by saying this incident was definitely racist - from the Indie link on Obama's speech:
'He did not know whether race had been a factor, but three things were clear. First, "any of us would be pretty angry" in such circumstances. Second, the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And thirdly, the President declared, "separate and apart from this incident, there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by police disproportionately. That's just a fact."'

"growing increasingly irate and being non-coroporative"

Yes, but the police didn't need him to co-operate any more at that point, they could just get the hell out.

it's obviously the police man should have vacated his home at that point...non-cooperative how?....he saw the ID..so get walking...

here's the police report.

No, he DOES have hte right to abuse the officer! It's the first amendment!

Am I the only person who finds it weird that the neighbours didn't recognise Gates when he arrived home and forced his way into his own home? But instead reported him to the police.

Yes doesn't sound like a very friendly area to live in, does it?!

Was it at night? perhaps the neighbour didn't have a clear view.

hmm, no, middle of the day according to the police report.

Hurrah for Barry O speaking his mind. It's almost like having Jed Bartlett in the White House