"Breastfeeding is oppressing women" (from The Guardian)

[morningpaper]

Let the breastfeeding rebellion begin

"In the 70s, many women protested that they were shackled to domesticity by the unreasonably high bar set for housework. Now, some say, it's not the vacuum cleaner that's oppressing women, but another sucking sound ..."

But but but but

This is a depressing article.

A British academic wouldn't give her name "because she is concerned about attacks from the pro-breastfeeding lobby"

I also fidn it really annoying when people say "I really tried to breastfeed for six days and it didn't work" - By six days lots of women will be in agony. The message that if you haven't got it cracked by six days then it hasn't worked - is just wrong.

And if there is such enormous pressure to exclusively breastfeed then why are only 3% of mothers still doing it at 5 months?

Yes women will feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. Women have the chance to feel guilty if they don't do a million things that are 'optimal' for their children's health and wellbeing. We can all agree that women need more support in the transition to motherhood, by setting up this monster of a pro-breastfeeding lobby is utterly unhelpful.

Having children BLOWS for women - your fanjo is shot to pieces, your career goes down the shitter, you piss yourself every time you sneeze, you lose your pension rights, your brain turns to mush, you have no social standing, boys stop grinning at your in the street - but BREASTFEEDING IS STILL THE OPTIMAL WAY TO FEED YOUR BABIES. You can't un-do that boring fact. And handing women a bottle isn't going to make everything better.

very well said LOUSTAN

i think that's completely right, 100x. imo there's no point in sugar-coating it so as not to put people off. if being told it's grim and hard for a while is a dealbreaker then let those people go, don't try to change their minds.

concentrate instead on those who want to, let them succeed in something they're determined to do, let them feed in public and talk about it and normalise it and in a generation or so, everyone will be on board.

Slightly off topic but I wanted to start a thread on the fact that there are never, ever positive normal images of women breastfeeding on television (on a programme that is not directly to do with breastfeeding that is).

I was so very disappointed that Maria on Corrie mentioned it (saying how hard it was) and the next time we see her she's bottle feeding her baby.

Showing an actress on a soap opera feeding her baby without drawing attention to it or discussing it in any other way would do more to normalise (and therefore encourage) breastfeeding than any number of midwives, Govt advice sheets etc.

I keep meaning to write to ITV and BBC about this. I feel so strongly about it.

OK, foreverchanges, you wouldn't care if someone told you they would be horrified to breastfeed . You are clearly strong and robust and confident. You'd probably - surely - think they are being a tad rude, though, yes?

I wouldn't care if someone told me that, either, prob because I am strong and robust and confident, . I know that often times, women who formula feed may be sensitive about it, and feel sad....so I try to be tactful.

I think it's good policy not to be rude. You do see it's rude, doncha?

Yeah, I think that too Aitch.

I see why they sold it has hard as they did to me, the message was a good one. And I persisted, and it worked. I ff dd as well as bf her - it took my being on my third child to have the confidence to do that.

I don't think it is oppressive. But I'm not absolutely sure it's all that honest, and perhaps that's why so many people give up? I might have given up if I hadn't had cs's - I think I wanted to do something 'right', as I saw it.

I will be telling my dd and dil's that it's great, and v. helpful when they're older, but you have to grit your teeth at the start and be STUBBORN and not expect it to be the most natural thing in the world.

i think everyone should be told that

Also then for those that can't, they understand that they haven't failed in some kind of trick that everyone else can do oh so easily.

sorry if upset you sunny girl and tik tok i didnt realise i would .i was speaking personally i do hate the idea of formula for my own children but if that suits you that is fine . i do know bf can be hell (it was for me) and i wouldnt deride anyone for using formula as i said on my first post

i dont see myself as superior to other others but i do think bm is superior food mrsruffalo

sorry to express such strong opinions

way ahead of you, fivecandles. lots of mners wrote to corrie and got a letter back saying 'audrey is selfish and would never bf because she wouldn't devote the time, kirk is stupid and stupid people don't like bfing, so that's why they both slagged off bfing. and most people don't bf anyway so it's all okay-dokay'.

It's down to training again, 100x, isn't it? Midwives need to know how to support and inform, and sort out problems, and to be honest about it all....that supporting breastfeeding is best done not by solely painting a lovely picture for women and romanticising it all.

I think it's partly the way we fragment maternity care. Midwives in hospital don't see many women more than 3 days postnatal; community midwives don't see women more than 2 weeks postnatal.

They don't get any sort of overview.

Yes, that's a v. good point. I think you're right.

I guess, back in the day, the message was seen as so important, and the images were so beautiful and nourishing, that nobody dared suggest that actually, you'd need to learn how to do it.

I honestly thought it'd just happen. Mind you, I also thought that if I put my baby in a cot at 7.00 and said 'good night' he'd go to sleep!

And it wasn't 'hard' for me at all, but I did need to learn it iyswim.

After emCS with my first born BF was the ONLY thing I could actually get right, it did take a few weeks to get established and I managed to go on till he was fully weaned with little outside support. Thankfully I fed my dd till she was fully weaned at 15 months too. Again with little help. I was lucky.

I have since become a BF Peer Support volunteer on local postnatal wards as mw simply do not have the time and resources to give proper support (some don't even have the inclination either [sigh])

Anyhow, I keep pushing for a Peer Support programme in the community as I KNOW mums need support for many weeks/months, not just a couple of days on the ward.

Until mums get true support in the home for as long as they need it we are never going to get anywhere. Mums will try and 'fail' but it is not them that fail, they are failed by a system which does not have enough funding, resources and womanpower to support them fully. It's political.

I enjoyed my breastfeeding, felt empowered by it and can look back with pride that I managed to achieve something that gives me great pleasure. I am so sad that many who wish for the same are being let down.

if i had seen my midwife post natally i would have punched her !

Right, that's interesting Aitch. Glad other people feel strongly about this too.

I think it's incredibly sad but important for us to be aware that if you see a breast on television it's more likely because of cosmetic surgery than breast feeding.

Again, find it incredibly sad that young women are more likely to get boob jobs than breast feed because it shows they see their breasts first and foremost as decorative items to attract men rather than their primary function to feed their children which of course they'll never be able to do...

But it isn't hard for everyone. Some women pop their baby on soon after birth and away they go - no cracked nipples, no foostering about for ages trying to get the latch.

Sometimes these are even the same women who have straightforward labours and don't need any pain relief!

Now obviously something must be done about these ladies and their joyous experiences but in the meantime we have to be careful about telling everyone something is really tough when it varies so much.

Have to confess that I haven't read the thread but my view is it's not bfeeding that oppresses women but all of the other forces and messages which oppose or make bfeeding difficult e.g. the pressure to get back to work, the pressure to get back into size 10 jeans, the idea that women's roles are still primarily to be attractive to men.

I bfed both by children but did feel very isolated because I was the only one and because it meant I was sometimes forced to be still with my babies which again flew in the face of other pressures and meant I was quite lonely sometimes and felt restricted by my babies

but

if there'd been a bigger and supportive community of other women bfeeding or the wider community was able to support bfeeding women more than I wouldn't have felt this.

So, while bfeeding doesn't oppress women there are lots of other forces at work in society that mean that women who do bfeed can be or feel oppressed IYSWIM.

I have read this thread throughout the day, and the whole really enjoyed the debate which has been handled really well for a change There has been so much already said on the wider picture, but I was really interested in the concept of the article that breastfeeding is oppressive to women.

I agree with Ermintrude that I can't see how following what is simply natural (albeit sometimes, difficult, painful even practically impossible) can be classed as oppressive.

I don't agree that creating milk for your baby and then enabling your baby to access it, is an act of oppression. I found it (overall) liberating and it felt right for me, even taking in to account the difficulties (too long a post to go in to) I faced along the way.

I have had my 2 babies (and 3rd next week) in a very middle class/pro-bf area (bath).

But with ds2 in particular who was a little early and poorly at birth had far more pressure to ff than bf. It was only because i did lots of research and am stubborn that i bf him.

For me bf is far from oppressive - ok you need to be with the baby a lot but thats sort of why i had a baby. Although to be fair i found the overwhelming responsibility of a baby harder to deal with first time round. Also it suits my lazy tendencies - easier to get out a boob than do a bottle.

My sister is currently ff her 3rd as her milk didn't come in as a result of poor support/bad latch and infections. She's found it really hard and i've been there whilst she's sobbed. Her baby is very sensitive and hard to settle and she feels he would have been easier to deal with if she'd succeeded with bf but she's getting on with it.

She has complained about the poor support she received post-natally and hopefully that may make things improve.

Anyway i'm due my 3rd c-section next week which i could easily make myself feel guilty about but i choose not to.

Would also add that even in this pro-bf area - i don't see that many women out and about bf especially once baby is past the 'newborn' phase.

Finally - even without expressing i still managed to get to a hairdressers - once babies are a few months old in my experience they will go a couple of hours without a feed.

tiktoc.. if you REALLY REALLY know grown women who 30 years after having a baby have tears in their eyes because they havnt breastfed then ffs they have had very sheltered and pampered lives..
what a load of crock OF COURSE breastfeeding doesnt always go as planned.. nor does life.. deal with it.
Feeding your baby is a tiny part of their life, I dont know if you are in the 'small baby 'time of your life, mine are now 20, 18 and 9 and I can tell you that life has far more nasty bits in it than whether you bf or not..

Going to my sons mates funeral on Wednesday, Rob was 18 and killed last week in Afghanistan.. get a fucking grip.. thats what brings tears to a mothers eyes, not this self indulgant clap trap..

Actually I disagree. Feeding children is a huge part of a parents life and tied with so many emotions. My own mother has been in tears 30 years after seeing me bf and remembering her pitiful attempt to bf my db.

Nor has my mother lived a sheltered and pampered life!!!

TheBody, whilst very sorry for your son's loss - how devastating - your post is extremely rude.

Why can people not still be somewhat sad about something they were very sad about at the time years later? Especially when there are people out there telling them they're pampered and they ought to get a fucking grip.

humnker - have you seen the aibu thread about blood boiling?

Herc, yep, I know women who get v emotional when they talk about the early days with their babies - I speak to a lot of women about what it was like for them and for many, they can't put to bed the feelings of grief and helplessness because it's not acknowledged that they are allowed to feel like that.

And oh, look, thebody is a clear demonstration of why.

These women aren't sobbing their hearts out every day, but when something such as seeing their daughter or granddaughter bfing or struggling - well, it's emotional, no? Just because it's not death doesn't mean it isn't sad.

How about the midwives turning up every 3 days to weigh your baby?
By day 10 of my DS not yet regaining birth weight I was finding bf really stressful and was squeezing what I could into baby's mouth. At this point I wasn't ready to go out... to a bf support group or somewhere helpful and found there was nothing the midwives could do or say to help. We got the hang of it, but I didn't appreciate the early morning visits from midwives.