Teacher questioned over attempted murder of pupil

[Frasersmum123]

This happened near to me

oh great now SEN bashing.

There are 247,000,000 child school days in a year.
In 2003 there were 171 serious assaults on teachers.

I am not denying that attacks take place, but I am worried that parents reading this think that our schools are hell-holes of violent and abusive behaviour. It is simply not true.

The job is stressful but most of my colleagues would agree that that is largely down to the bureaucracy/targets etc, not the students.

I'm really shocked by these stories. This is a bit tangential but why are pupils who behave like this allowed to get in the way of the process of education?

I think there should be two sorts of schools - not divided by ability, but by behaviour. If you are a student who can behave at school, show other people respect and want to learn, you can be at a normal school and learn stuff with normal teachers in a calm environment. Anyone who demonstrated that they couldn't behave would be moved to an intensive remedial school with security guards to protect specially trained teachers. They would get a lot of help with their behaviour, as well as lessons. If they improved and showed a willingness to learn, they could return to the normal school, but if they caused a problem they'd just go back again.

Yes it would be bloody expensive, I realise that. But, besides the horror of all this for the teachers, what about the kids who aren't causing a problem who have to sit through this all the time when they are supposed to be getting an education?

As has been said most children/teenagers are actually OK. Take the disruptive ones out of the equation and they wouldn't have an influence on the others either.

Re this case, I'm sorry for both the teacher and the student, who may not have been disruptive at all himself - we don't know.

Did you think I was SEN bashing 2shoes? I sincerely hope not.

thatgirlfromthatgig - the charge howver may be changed or amended due to diminished responsibility if reports that the teacher was indeed suffering from some form of illenss or mental health issues. From what I read it also apears that the weight was from scales int he classroom, so the weapon may not be a premediatated thing but something close to hand picked up in the spur of the moent - so not intended as such. Again it bring s us back to whether the person is thinking right at the time, or if their mental healh is at question.

As yet we do not know

Whatever has happened it is a tragic and sisturbing incident.

Is there anyone on this thread who doesn't agree that the teacher's attack on this child is indefensible? If so speak now, because I can't imagine anyone would defend it.

Seeking to understand, isn't the same as defending.

What happened to the girl in the sixties poface? Were there any consequences for her actions?

clemette - there were xx number of serious assaults reported yes, Howmany were not reported and kept in hosue, as is the norm for school based incidents. And how many non serious assaults took place? I imagine it would be way way more. Infact from union statistics it is excessively more IIRR.

No there was no consequence for her actions AFAIK.

Seeking to understand is fine if one actually knows what happened, otherwise it is speculation, no? I mean mp said her source was from a 'dodgy chat forum' or something.

I wonder how many people have stories about bulling teachers?
I know I had one at school, I also remember a teacher hitting a pupil. ds also had one.
maybe we should balance the thread bt telling those stories

"I am worried that parents reading this think that our schools are hell-holes of violent and abusive behaviour. It is simply not true."

You've kind of reassured me a bit there clemette. Frankly I dread DS going to secondary school because already in primary I find the behaviour which is regularly tolerated disturbing. Am hoping it's just his current school, not the norm, IYSWIM.

violethill I don't think the "norm" should be adjusted. I think teachers should receive better training in managing young people who are not always able to control their behaviour.

muffle your proposition genuinely upsets me. There are very few "bad" kids. Some children will kick off only once in their school career. We have three children at the moment who have parents who are dying of cancer. They act out at school because they are hurting/frightened - to condemn them to a second rate school is an awful idea.
BTW we do have schools for those who repeatedly break the rules and end up excluded - they are often called pupil referral units. My dad has worked with these children all of his career and has never felt the need to hit one!

sorry poface I xposted with you, that was not directed at you.

I think this is an unusual case actually - I know ex teachers from that school, dh's school is in the same catchement.
Assaults happen by pupils in other schols - what's important is that it doesn't happen in this one-it's an excellent school with very good pupil behaviour-which is the norm for Catholic schools in our area.
I'm assuming this man acted because of some temporary insanity caused by the brain damage from his recent stroke.
Terrible for his family and his children that go to the same school, but obviously the poor boy in hospital is the main victim and how horrifying for the other children who saw it happen too.
If I was his head of department/line manager I would be very concerned because they should have known he wasn't up to the job -someone must have.

2shoes.

2shoes - of course that will be the case too; sadly there are bad teachers in the same way there are in every profession. Fortunately I never came across any.

I can't call this teacher's behaviour "indefensible" until we know the facts. If there is a court case he will be defended, by a lawyer. There are cases where people have done horrendous things and there are extenuating circumstances - being of unsound mind is one possibility.

good post luckylady. It definitely sounds as though something went very wrong with the whole process of returning to work after a serious neurological illness.

So tell me clemette - how do you think training me would have helped me deal with a child who decided, after being told calmly and politely to get on with work, to lift a chair and slam it into my pregnant stomach? My classroom management and discipline, my dealing with pupils was never, in my 10 years of teaching, called into question. Infact quite the opposite; additionally I was able to maaange the behaviours on many very voloatile high cat offenders in prison. But it didn't help me at that point. School dealing with the child might have helped though. Maybe if that child had faced some consequences for bad behaviour before, during and after this incident mght have prevented it and also the other verbal and physical assaults he carried out. And this wasn't even that bad a school!

I do wonder how many of you actully have teens or spend time wh=ith them.....

clemette I'm not talking about kicking off once, but about the examples of behaviour on this thread where pupils have repeatedly launched violent attacks, been suspended for a day or two and then they're back and do it again.

A one-off from a child who is under stress should obviously be looked into and understood.

Also I'm not seeing remedial schools as a punishment or some kind of bin, but as a place where children can learn about behaviour, respect and why they are doing this and try to sort it out. One thing that bothers me about all this is that a lot of this bad behaviour is going unaddressed. i expect with most if not all disruptive children there are reasons behind it and ways in which they need to be helped and listened to. While at the same time stopping their behaviour from disrupting everyone else's education.

you can't call slamming a heavy weight into a child's head indefensible muffle? What extenuating circumstances could make it defensible then? Good God.

2shoes - no, I don't have teens of my own. But I did teach them for 10 years and I did work for a further 3 years in a prison which took offenders from 17 years whom I worked one to one with. I did develop a fair understanding of teenagers through my work and the relationships I developed with them in that time.

By 2shoes
"I am sickened by the way people insist on defending a grown man attacking a child."

There are 14yo out there who have murdered, raped and stolen. Just because they are a child, does not mean they cannot be held to account for their behaviour.

I personally feel it is high time that children who verbally abuse teachers are dealt with in the same way that children who bully other children are dealt with. I go to work and don't expect to be verbally abused by colleagues. Teachers should not have to put up with verbal assault either.

This in no way trivilises what has happened to the young boy which is totally unacceptable.

Pretending that children who go school are always the innocent party is naive and does a disservice to teachers and the children themselves.

Listening to what my teachers in secondary school friends have to put up with I am only suprised this has not happened before.

Hulababy I am sorry for your experience, but I think I have made it clear that I am not talking about children who are repeatedly violent. I have stated that their behaviour is unacceptable. I simple maintain that such behaviour is actually quite rare, and is not what happened in this case.

muffle "i expect with most if not all disruptive children there are reasons behind it and ways in which they need to be helped and listened to. While at the same time stopping their behaviour from disrupting everyone else's education." at most schools this is exactly what we try to do every day.