Smoking in cars with children

[mumof2222222222222222boys]

I have just seen that there is a proposal that it should be banned (as it is in some countries) given the concentration of toxins in a limited space.

What do you think?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8079357.stm

Agree Noonki.

If people can't make a small personal sacrifice to provide their kids with clean air, that is a very sad situation.

I'm another one who remembers how horrible it was when my parents smoked in the car - and how carsick and headachy it made me. I also remember asking my mum not to smoke in the car and telling her how dreadful it made me feel - and she told me it wasn't her cigarettes, it was Dad's pipe smoke.

Funnily enough, when Dad gave up his pipe, and later when he gave up smoking altogether, I still felt sick in the car whenever Mum lit up.

I like the idea of a ban on smoking in cars that are conveying children, but the police have so much on their plates at the moment that they don't seem to be having much success in ensuring that children wear their seatbelts or that drivers don't use their phones.

I suspect that education might be more useful than another law.

With all of the wealth of information online / handed out in schools etc etc etc Loads of parents still aren't strapping their kids in carseats that are correct for their weight.

Either its because they have assumed that their child is ok on a booster cushion aged 3 which is unlikely, just plain don't care or think it isn't a big enough risk for a child to be in the wrong seat. If that is the case then what hope have you got for the same parents to think to themselves hmm I think i'll protect my kids from second hand smoke.

If smoking is going to be banned in cars with kids I welcome it, its the only way peoples attitudes towards it will change, sorry if I seem harsh, but I see kids every day unstrapped / in the wrong seat frequently with the parents unconcernedly puffing away in the front and it makes me feel really sad for the kids that they aren't being looked after consideratley.

Ban all smoking .

At least all smoking in cars. Dc in the cars or not.

Can we have an exclusion zone round schools too? I am fed up with walking through the fog at the school gates

It is illegal to smoke in a business vehicle already. So van drivers who share a van should not be smoking. It came into force with the indoor/public/workplace smoking ban.

Of course its wrong go smoke near children - but if these muppet parents need to be told that by the police / government - what sort of parents are they anyway? Yes the ban would help one narrow aspect of their lives but what a shame we have so many feckless parents 'caring' for dependent children that a ban is necessary in the first place.

I think a ban is absolutely right.

But toxins aside - People are fined for eating bananas/ice creams/sipping water, because it doesn't leave them in proper control of a car. So smoking a cigarette which if dropped would cause a burn and possible panic in the driver should obviously be banned. It's been pissing me off for such a long time.

"Smoking in cars with children" are parents sharing cigs with kids??

You have quoted what I said but taken it out of context Noonki. Of course I don't think it is good for parents to smoke in a car with their children, I was just pointing out that banning things as specifically as this is a bit pointless and won't stop people doing this if they are the type of person who would do it anyway.

Agree with stayingsunnygirl that education the answer not law change.

What can education tell people that they don't already know here? Smoking causes cancer, second hand smoke is just as bad, cars are confined space, children shouldn't be subjected to your smoke. Everyone already knows that - there have been endless campaigns about it, more education won't help.

As I said in an earlier post, it might take time, but a change in the law can bring about a change in culture, just like it has with seatbelts - and that is not an easy law to enforce any more than the smoking ban would be. It has still been effective though.

I have memories of when i was young and the driver and front passenger smoked what seemed like consistently, i remember hardly being able to breathe and not feeling able to tell the adults i didnt like it, so yes i believe it should be banned.

I still see lots of children leaping around the backs of cars without a seatbelt though (usually the same people who are smoking ), and lots on the phone, which I just think looks so dangerous.

True, PresidentTaylor, but they are in the minority these days whereas when I was a kid, seatbelts weren't even fitted in the back of the car, and some of us used to travel in the boot without even a seat, let along a seatbelt . But nowadays the culture is to wear a seatbelt/use a car seat, at least for the majority. There will alway be someone who goes against the grain though.

Plus the type of people who still don't put their kids in a seatbelt or booster seat despite the law and education are the ones who won't respond to any action to ban smoking in cars anyway. So they might as well be out of the equation (though this is sad and unfortunate for their poor, innocent children).

God the memories of me and my sister shouting out to mum and dad to "wind the window down" when we were in the car and they both lit up at once. Yuk.

Where does it stop though? Banning it in cars with children in surely leads to baning it in houses with children in? Where is the cutoff point and does it lead to a nanny state?

My point being that there will always be some parents who really can't take care of their children. If it's not smoking it'll be something else.

ITotally in favour of a ban btw but just thinking through the implications.

Good grief yes, ban it, how can any one smoke in a car when there are children in it? It's beyond me.

I know someone who's DC3 was born 6 weeks early and spent some time in SCBU. I saw her sitting in her (stationary) car with the not-yet-term baby in the carseat, on the front passenger seat beside her as she puffed on a fag, with the drivers side window wound down only a couple of inches. When you go into their house every room stinks of fags, even though they "only smoke in the kitchen by the back door" the kids bedrooms smell just as bad as the livingroom and so on. It's disgusting. And of course, all her children suffer from rampant ear and chest infections, they have all spent a few days and nights on IV antibiotics and oxygen therapy in the childrens ward before their first birthday, I can't think why.........

I am a bit unsure as to why smoking in a car wit hchildren present isn't attracting an offence in he category of child abuse. But then I am a bit of a fascist. Apparently!!

I'm glad this has come up.

My DP said he'd give up when DS was born, but the evil weed is still with him 6 months later, unfortunately.

He's cut down a lot and when we're at home he only smokes outside.

BUT he does smell of smoke after he's had a cig, and he does smoke in the car with DS in the back occasionally, with the window wound down fully, but still I'm sure it's not good.

The article says "Recent research published by the Ontario Tobacco Research Unit showed that with drivers smoking just one cigarette, the pollution created inside the car was 100 times greater than the US Environmental Protection Agency accepted standard for fine particle exposure."

I'm assuming this relates to the window closed. Does anyone know if there is also any evidence to show that smoking with the window open is also harmful? (Or maybe simply in an open space)?

Also, I'm sure I read something a while ago about smoke on the clothes still being harmful, even if you never smoke in the same room.

My DP is otherwise an extremely caring, kind, intelligent and rational man. For some reason (addiction perhaps ) he can't seem to see the wood for the trees on this one. He would never smoke in the same room, but I think he underestimates just how pervasive and damaging cigarette smoke actually is.

I'm sure some evidence based stuff would help - does anyone know of any which shows that smoking is bad for others who share your home/space, even if you're not actually smoking in a confined space with them?

TIA

I'm another one who was pickled in smoke by my chain smoking parents. I loathed car journeys. I think the right of children not to be trapped in a small metal container where they can't escape breathing in lungfuls of secondhand smoke far outweighs the right of parents to smoke in the car.
And I reckon anyone who thinks otherwise probably didn't have to suffer a childhood of being smoked like a kipper. It is not pleasant.

Lowrib, It might have helped your dp if he had heard a conversation in the playground the other day with 2 kids asking a 3rd why he smelt funny...

Was rather embarrasing for the parents. Especially the mum who had been sitting in the car smoking before school.

More importantly it was very upsetting for the "stinky" child. Sooo glad my dc weren't involved in that one.

I have been told that if you smoke a cigarette and then pick up a baby who is on an oxygen monitor you can watch the oxygen levels in the baby drop, but i'm sure someone who works in a NICU would know better than me on that one.

Buy him a nicorette inhalator to use in the car, my friend had one and said it was the only thing that got her through quittng smoking. It meant that when her will power had run out she could have a blast on that to settle the craving, tell herself she still hadn't had a fag and didn't get addicted to the inhalator because it tasted so grim. Its funny because you don't really hear about them any more. ~Its always patches

The inhaler in the car is a really good idea, thanks

When I was a child and young adult I missed literally months of school over the years with bronchitis, ear infections etc. I had a 'weak chest' supposedly.
Guess what? As soon as I left home and my chain-smoking dad (lovely though he was) I was absolutely fine and now I rarely have so much as a sniffle.

Smoking in a car with with children should be banned. Without a doubt.

I remember long car journeys where I felt sooo car sick, not helped by my dad smoking. He did wind down the winow one inch, though.

Wow - we're on the leader board!!

No one seems to have a major issue with the proposal - although quite a few of you think that there could be practical problems in enforcing a ban.

My view is that of GoodWitchGlinda - a ban could bring about a change in the culture. a lot of posters have said how distressing it is to see small children in smoky cars - at the moment you can't do anything about it. A change in the law would mean that people (well the police - I am not one for vigilantism) could take action.

Lowrib is I think the only poster to say that her kids are subjected to smoke in the car due to her DH's occasional car smoking. Good on you for encouraging him to stop.

We've all seen plenty of people doing it - is anyone on MN prepared to admit to doing it and say why they think it is ok (and presumably why a ban would be inappropriate)?

When I was pregnant with DD1 a Dr at work told me that if you go outside to smoke you need to wear a hat, scarf, coat and gloves. When you come in you need to take off/change all your outer clothing (trousers, hat, scarf and gloves) and wash your hands and clean your teeth, but still not pick the baby up or go near it for a while (can't remember how long) because you will still be breathing out toxic gases for a bit, and these gases on your breath and clothes are enough to trigger asthma and respiratory infections in a baby.

I told this to DP (who was still an occasional smoker at that point, I stopped a while before getting pregnant) and he stopped instantly.

My MIL smokes, not in the living room, in the kitchen and conservatory, and when the kids have been to visit, even if it's just for an hour or two, they come home smelling of smoke, it's revolting.