Light sensors cause religious row

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Story here.

Maybe they should just move?

Lucia: The vast majority of Jews consider such prohibitions historical, so unless you are arguing with a hardcore Jew, which I don't think you are, it's kind of moot. The Torah doesn't ever speak of sexual acts in terms of a loving relationship - that interpretation has developed over time.

Onager: The rituals of the sabbath are just that - rituals which help people to remember God through every action that they consciously make on a given day. That is very important to them - culturally and religiously. Is that really so hard to understand?

OlympedeGouges, much of the bible is not about "morality, social justice and compassion". It's scraps of regulations for an ancient tribe, a few songs, some of Ruth's biography, Some genealogies and so on. Later on there are some sections written about someone called jesus by anonymous writers who never met him which may or may not have value.

That's why I compared to Russell grant and a cookbook. There are some attempts at predicting the future and there are also some instructions for cooking. It's pretty random.

That is kind of a bizarre way of summing up 66 rather complex ancient texts to be honest.

Morningpaper, so they are not god's commands then? That makes it easier, but are you sure that the majority of religious people agree?

Onager: Which part are you talking about exactly? They are lots of different things, probably very few written around the time of actual events.

MP, have you read it? I mean from cover to cover, not just the bits they read out or recommend in church.

That was my mistake you know. They gave me a bible when I was a kid and I read the thing. I became an atheist soon after.

Come off it Lucia, are you saying that the Leviticus quote must be taken literally?

MP, you just said "Onager: The rituals of the sabbath are just that - rituals which help people to remember God through every action that they consciously make on a given day"

I say "oh not god's commands then?" and you say "what part?"

All of the parts that sound like commands, but particularly the sabbath.

Lucia39, I think I love you

And where has UQD gone? I have just caught up with the posts and he seemed like the only non believer here fighting our corner earlier in the day, poor chap! I enjoyed your posts UQD, come back as I'm not as good at putting it in words as you

Rofl at snorbs best before 1AD.

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread, it is very long but I am reminded of what the physicist Richard Feynman said (I hope I spelled his name right...)

He suffered discrimination for being Jewish; i think he wasn't allowed into MIT or Harvard as they 'had used up their Jewish quota'.

But he writes very movingly of his disappointment with a group of jewish students who were eager to learn whether switching a light on and off 'made fire'. he thought they had a genuine interest in physics, they just wanted to know if they were breaking the rules about making fire.

If you want to live your life by silly rules, then you need to live that life surrounded by other people who subscribe to the same nonsense.

If God/Jehovah/Allah really gives a flying fuck about who is turning lights on and off then the whole religious thing is even more ridiculous than I previously thought.

Onager: Yes I've read the Bible cover to cover.

Can you see how the phrase "God's commands" can be interpreted as "We do these things to be mindful of God in all our actions on this day"? It doesn't necessarily mean "This big chap came down and wrote these things in my notepad and now We Must Do Them Or Go To Hell".

Jewish people don't even BELIEVE in hell.

you love Lucia because she has put me down presumably, and I needed taking down a peg or two, obviously. She hasn't actually argued why that quote should be taken literally, but hey, never mind.

No I can't because those are two different things and it makes no sense to claim otherwise.

Either they are things you do to remember someone or they are things they told you that you must do.

I would imagine that they are things you must do if you want to love and remember someone

You might say that, but they are not commands. You can't have it both ways.

They are just WHAT JEWS DO. I'm not sure what point you are making?

I like the idea of a "best after" date for prophecies. Very good.

OlympedeGouges, A bit of a side issue but you seem more up on the historical side than I am. Do we know roughly when Leviticus was written? I've never really given a lot of thought to what the rest of the world was doing at that time.

I think the thing that has annoyed me both here and in RL, is that people who believe feel that I am missing out on something by not believing, or (Olympe?) am a less rounded, more shallow person because I am not prepared to accept it as a possibility without evidence.

Atheists are often(this thread included) accused of being smug, well from an atheist point of view that is exactly how many religious people come across.

I would not say to someone with belief in god(s) that they were missing out on something deeply fulfilling by ignoring my version of reality, yet this is what many religious people feel they have to change in me.

It is difficult as an atheist not to want to stand up and be counted, I think many atheists feel in a minority in a world that seems to revolve around religions of all sorts.
The 'new atheism' that has been referred to here is a result of that I think, along with more people feeling able to admit their true beliefs now that it has become more socially acceptable(and less likely, with the development of knowledge, that an afterlife exists other than in our wishful thinking[or perhaps it is an acknowledgment of our inability to accept ourselves as truly mortal])

As UQD said, the default setting should logically be that of non-belief. If there is a desire to seek the divine in some, then this should be a private matter, and not have such influence in the running of life (politeness aside).

Religion in all it's forms is named in so many World problems. Non belief isn't.

From here:

"The large majority of modern studies on Leviticus have abandoned Mosaic authorship (exceptions are Harrison (1980: 15?25) and Rooker (2000: 38?39)). To me it seems scholars have assigned the genesis of Leviticus to various stages of Israel?s history (cf. Gerstenberger 1993: 9?13), partly because in dwelling on the formal aspects of its ritual and ceremonial prescriptions they have overlooked the high existential demands the Lord places on the Israelites and priests. When due account is taken of these demands, such as the need to destroy the human egocentric nature (see below), an admission that priests or any group in Israel?s history could not have written Leviticus seems inevitable. The demands made of such people are just too high! Leviticus has its origin in God. Though this does not in itself reveal the book?s date of authorship, in combination with what the book describes it does favour the view that it originates from the time of Moses ? more so than traditional critical theories that date it somewhere in the first millennium BC (cf. Kiuchi 2003c: 523).""

Olympe, not because she put you down, but because she is far more knowledgeable and able to argue a point than I.

I think you put others down rather nastily actually, on a thread were most of the later discussion is good natured (not all though I must say), some(not all) of your posts tend to stand out as either defensive (as in the one just directed at me), or smug, or condescending. Not because your views differ to mine, but because of their tone. Sorry.

You(and others) are also obviously well read on the subject, and I cannot argue with the level of knowledge you have, Lucia can, hence my support of her.

OlympedeGouges: My comment on the reasons for the injunction in Leviticus 18:22 was intended to be light-hearted [should have used an emoticon]. Sand, camels, sheep, women kept hidden away - all those stereotypes!

However, read my later [serious] post. Given that there were parallels in Assyrian and Babylonian law codes it hardly makes this injunction specifically Jewish/Hebrew!

Perhaps you'd now care to clarify what you meant by "In Bible times"!

on a thread where obviously

growingup, I'm not jeering I have just said her knowledge in this area is obvious.